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Are women really happy?

M

Mike

New Member
I do find the biblical arguments against polygamy to be weak and I think there are a lot of good arguments in favor of it but I'm having a lot of trouble finding examples of women, including on this site, who seem to be thrilled deep down with the idea of sharing their husband. It always seems to involve a great deal of tears and an enormous sacrifice. My wife believes it would be worse than death. Face it, its not exciting for the wife like it is for the man. I know there are benefits, like shared housework, childcare, companionship, etc. but why so much psychological pain? Look at www.shieldandrefuge.org and click on "Are Women Really Happy in Polygamy?" Read that. There are other examples like it. Maybe these are just rare instances and I've just been fooled by the media, but I doubt it. As a website dedicated to upholding truth, you should have no trouble posting this note and letting people comment on it. It's sometimes difficult to get women in polyugamous circumstances to describe their true feelings about living in polygamy. I want to hear from women. I've already read lots of lengthy intellectual explanations written by men on this website. It's easy for men to talk. I wrote to Tom Shipley on this subject and he basically said that the Bible should be our guide, not women's feelings. He couldn't give me anything else. I'm also curious. Does being raised in this lifestyle truly make a woman love it? If any woman on here was raised in polygamy, please let me know. Also, what caused some of you ladies to initially change your mind on the subject and come to believe in polygamy? I want to teach my kids what the Bible really teaches, but frankly, if I taught them that the Bible said its okay for a man to have 2 wives, my wife would have a hissy fit, take the kids and leave. She's already devastated enough that I entertain the idea in theory. Truth should never fear close scrutiny. So let people comment on this post. I want to hear from women mainly. And if you don't usually comment on this dicussion forum, but you have something to say, please do. If you want to email privately, my email is MikeAnd1981@hotmail.com. I look forward to lots of comments. I need them. Thanks.

Mike
 
Mike,
I just want to take a moment to comment, I will come back to this when I have time. The biggest issue is not polygyny, it is the absence of God ordained and designed patriarchy. No woman can be happy in a polygynous marriage if she does not understand and believe what the Word teaches about family with male headship and female support and submission. If this truth is not in place, forget about plural marriage and forget about godly living, even in a monogamous marriage. From what you already describe, your wife is not in sync with you being the genuine leader and head of your family. Is that her fault or your? Later my friend.
John
 
Well, Mike, I guess I would probably be a prime candidate to answer your questions. I am a woman,first off ;) I've been happily married to my husband for 22 years, and he took a second wife two years ago.

I was raised in a conservative Christian home and had never heard of Christian polygamy until my husband asked me to research the Biblical validity of it. I wasn't in any hurry to become involved in it, even though I had determined from scripture that it was a righteous choice. However, our situation is probably a bit different than most. My husband believed that this was something God specifically called him to do, and I eventually felt the same way.

Truthfully, it does involve a great deal of tears and an enormous sacrifice. Most hard things do. Most great things do. There are also a multitude of blessings that come with this lifestyle, but that's not what it's all about. To me, it's all about doing exactly what God desires of me. I am His clay, and He is my Potter. If my life is easy or hard, happy or sad, simple or complicated, monogamous or polygynous, I will praise Him, because that is the life He has given me, and I want to live it to the fullest to bring God the glory due His name.

If you asked my husband, I'm sure he would say there are many, many days that aren't exciting at all. I'm sure my SW would say the same thing, and so would I. If I had to guess, you'd probably say the same about your marriage, too :) Polygyny is definitely harder than a monogamous marriage, but as I stated earlier, hard things, great things, come with their own blessings.

I found your statement below quite interesting:

Truth should never fear close scrutiny.

Just remember, it goes both ways ;) Don't fear your wife's scrutiny of your theoretical beliefs! The statistical facts are in her favor, as there are men on this board who have believed this way for years, and don't have a second wife. :P

If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

Katie
 
Mike.

No, they are not, unless....they want it.

Even then it will be hard but they will be happier with having sisterwives. Just the husband wanting it is not enough (much as they love to think otherwise).

I am 100% biologically female but 100% not a Christian, so my understanding of the situation comes sans understanding of 'Biblical submission' which is not something I care for to be honest.

B
 
It comes down to love and the ability of the women to get along with one another. That's what i've been told anyway. :D
 
sola scriptura said:
Don't fear your wife's scrutiny of your theoretical beliefs! The statistical facts are in her favor, as there are men on this board who have believed this way for years, and don't have a second wife.
Click to expand...
Good point!
 
Thanks for all your replies.
Jim said:
sola scriptura said:
Don't fear your wife's scrutiny of your theoretical beliefs! The statistical facts are in her favor, as there are men on this board who have believed this way for years, and don't have a second wife.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Honestly, I don't fear my wife's close scrutiny. But she doesn't scrutinize at all. I wish she did. There is no discussion. "Polygamy is evil. That's it! End of story!"
As for Mr. Whitten's comments about male headship, I think we generally believe and practice this in a biblical way, and she's never had a problem with it, but if her husband/male head believes in something like polygamy, all respect goes out the door. She views polygamy as an evil on a level with homosexuality. Whether or not discussion would change this, I don't know because there is no discussion. Maybe if she knew people that believed in polygamy, she might see that they're not all insane. And I think she knows this subconsciously. That's why she doesn't want to meet anyone like this.
Anyways, thanks again for your responses. I'll quit rambling.

Mike
 
Hi Mike. I think gentle persistence, patience and the passage of time might be the prescription here? Best wishes, ylop
 
Mike said:
if her husband/male head believes in something like polygamy, all respect goes out the door. She views polygamy as an evil on a level with homosexuality. Whether or not discussion would change this, I don't know because there is no discussion. Maybe if she knew people that believed in polygamy, she might see that they're not all insane. And I think she knows this subconsciously. That's why she doesn't want to meet anyone like this.
Anyways, thanks again for your responses. I'll quit rambling.

Mike
Click to expand...

I have (former) close family members who have compared polygyny to sodomy and pedophilia, so I know how you feel! The human mind can't process some concepts from a non-emotional point of view, and for most women, polygyny is one of those concepts. There is so much cultural and emotional baggage wrapped up with polygyny that's it's hard, almost impossible, to get past all the junk and actually look at it theologically and intellectually.

I think that it was purely the grace and mercy of God that He chose to "remove the scales from my eyes", and allowed me to see the beautiful truth of polygyny. There is hope! Believe the truth, speak the truth in love, and let the Lord do the rest.

Katie
 
Mike,

This teaching article may be of help to you on why people often close up or just do not discuss the subject at all or if they do why they often get so mad about it.

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1894
 
Katie,

When you first heard that your husband believed in polygamy, did you have a severe emotional reaction to it? Was this followed by weeks of arguing? Did you run to the pastor? Was this followed by more arguing and finally, silence on the subject, all the while knowing that there was this underlying tension waiting to boil over at the slightest provocation?
This is the case with me. My wife ran to the pastor. He wrote me a stern letter. I answered all his very typical arguments, offered to talk to him in person, but haven't heard from him since on this subject. It's been awkward with him ever since. I don't have any idea how to even bring up the subject with my wife any more. I don't dare to. I don't dare teach my kids about the subject because I'm afraid of how my wife might react. It feels kind of hopeless. My wife became friends on facebook with a lady who used to be one of 10 wives of a Mormon polygamist in Mexico. This lady then escaped, became a Christian, wrote a book and now preaches the evils of polygamy. She, of course, thinks I'm falling into grave error and sin.
However, I cannot condemn plural marriage as sin. I almost wish I could. It's so much easier being surrounded by like minded people than always thinking that every friend and relative you know would consider you insane and perverted if they knew your beliefs.
I wish I could meet some like minded believers. The retreats are almost always back east some place. There's not much going on here in the lonely northwest. Fellowship is indeed necessary because the values that people hold are influenced to some degree by the values of the people surrounding you. In other words, I might be convinced in my mind that plural marriage is acceptable, but in my heart I have doubts.
You said God removed the scales from your eyes. Was this a long gradual process or did it happen over night. What was the thing that finally convinced you? Was it that you met some normal Christian people who practiced plural marriage?
Anyways, I'll quit talking. Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions.

Mike
 
As Katie mentione, nothing worth doing is easy or painless. But I have said before and will say again, that even in a monogamous marriage women are not always happy completely or always. Neither are men. Every new relationship is a bumpy road full of lessons learned and mistakes made. I don't know many bride who haven't cried many tears the first year or two of marriage. It may be a honeymoon, but it is also a time of discovery. We make mistakes, we fight a bit, then we move on. Every relationship that matters has been like that. A new mother (while usually ecstatic about the new baby) will cry tears of frustration when things don't work out exactly as planned. Same thing if people marry others who already have children.

This is to say that any time we love, we are vulnerable to hurt. This means that we willingly give someone else (God, husband, sisterwife, child) the power to hurt us. If that never happens, then our relationships never grow and deepen.

When we exercise to build our bodies, we deliberately injure them so that the muscles will grow stronger. Every time we allow God to heal our hearts, they become stronger in His love.

Pain is not always bad. It can be, but sometimes it is growth.

SweetLissa
 
John Whitten said:
Mike,
I just want to take a moment to comment, I will come back to this when I have time. The biggest issue is not polygyny, it is the absence of God ordained and designed patriarchy. No woman can be happy in a polygynous marriage if she does not understand and believe what the Word teaches about family with male headship and female support and submission. If this truth is not in place, forget about plural marriage and forget about godly living, even in a monogamous marriage. From what you already describe, your wife is not in sync with you being the genuine leader and head of your family. Is that her fault or your? Later my friend.
John
Click to expand...
mike,
you need to get an understanding of leadership and not just skip over this part while focussing on her.
 
I want to say to the men on here: This guy is very FEARFUL of his wife doing a number on him like what has happened to several men on here-Sir Bumbleberry and Doc to name a few! (hope I didn't out anyone inapropriately!) He does not want to lose her and this is crippling him to some extent. How do you balance patriarchy "Im in Charge" stuff with the freedom and emasculating powers that women have at their disposal today??? He is facing reality.

I think this is just as much an 800 lb gorilla as the "women in pain putting on a smile" thing! Mike you are right-it takes first wives a lot longer to come to terms with this stuff than they are willing to admit. Even after they have accepted it intellectually there may be passive/aggresive behavior, apathy, etc. Stuff that undermines or subtly sabotages the husband's involvement in this. Also, yes, some women will never accept it and they WILL leave, either just because her husband would dare to proclaim that polygyny is NOT a sin or because she could not deal with the reality that she now will have to share her husband (as if he were her private bus seat)! As we wives like to say when things don't go as we planned "I did NOT sign up for THIS!!!" and that indignantion and hurt pride definitely wins out nowadays. :cry:
 
patriarchy is not about "I'm in charge"
i do not feel able to explain it here.
 
steve said:
John Whitten said:
Mike,
I just want to take a moment to comment, I will come back to this when I have time. The biggest issue is not polygyny, it is the absence of God ordained and designed patriarchy. No woman can be happy in a polygynous marriage if she does not understand and believe what the Word teaches about family with male headship and female support and submission. If this truth is not in place, forget about plural marriage and forget about godly living, even in a monogamous marriage. From what you already describe, your wife is not in sync with you being the genuine leader and head of your family. Is that her fault or your? Later my friend.
John
Click to expand...
mike,
you need to get an understanding of leadership and not just skip over this part while focussing on her.
Click to expand...
Good point! I think biblical leadership would make a good topic for another thread (hint), maybe one of the leaders here could do that. It would be great to learn techniques that could enable a husband to become a man after God's own heart.
 
Mike said:
This is the case with me. My wife ran to the pastor. He wrote me a stern letter. I answered all his very typical arguments, offered to talk to him in person, but haven't heard from him since on this subject. It's been awkward with him ever since.
Click to expand...
I had to give my wife permission before she was able to speak to our pastor about PM, and since I figured it would help expose the some truth about it, I encouraged her to go to our pastor about it. But with our pastor, he first asked my wife if she had permission from me to speak to him. The short of the story is that it did help expose some truth, and gave me more creditability.
 
steve said:
patriarchy is not about "I'm in charge"
i do not feel able to explain it here.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry steve, I didn't mean "I'm in Charge" to sound like a bully kind of "I'm in Charge". I mean the husband is in charge in a marriage, as it should be-I certainly don't want ot be in charge of anything but my kids. The problem is that if your wife leaves (and that is realtively easy in some cases nowadays-much more so than in biblical times) then you are in charge of nothing. How does a guy deal with that threat to his family? That is what Mike is trying to glean from this website. That's all.
 
As I read the replies to the original post I thought about the Serenity Prayer. I think it applies here in that we cannot control what others think; at best if they respect us we may be able to influence them. Until a woman comes to the realize the truths about plural marriage it is unlikely that she will accept it; at best she may state that it is ok for others but not for her. Patience and prayer may be the best remedy for many women...and from what I have read here a retreat may not hurt either...;)
 
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