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Agape Marriage

it does not have to be all black or white (agape or non-agape)

all of us can and should take steps in the agape direction, remembering that YHWH and His love are infinitely trustable while we are not.

i do believe that the 7 women choose that particular man because they had observed how he led and provided for his other 3 or 4 wives, not because he was the only one available. i am convinced that some single men (and men with 1 wife) were passed over in the process.
what pushes me toward that pov is that they offer to provide for themselves. indicating to me that he has plenty of fam to provide for already. otherwise their offer of self-provision ruins the spirit of the whole concept.
 
Sometimes my thoughts just dribble out of my mind like drops and it is hard to get them all in the same cup. Here's a straggler. Regarding agape love. I was told early in my christian life that there are 3 kinds of love. Eros, phileo and agape. While there may be derivatives of phileo and agape, eros is not used in scripture. I was surprised to find in my research that more than 95% of the references to love are agape and it's derivatives. Seems like we really need to hone our loving skills in every area of our lives. The end result of that could likely be a Christ-like spirit that solves most of our problems. First things first.
 
CindyW said:
Is there a guarantee of no tomahawks or rolling pins??? :lol: :lol:

Well there are two rolling pins in this household. We use them like swords. And ummm on the tomahawk... that is still getting repaired. :o

And that is one of my alll time favorite pics of Cecil .aka sir bumbleberry.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes that is a lovely picture of a beautiful bride and her handsome prince :D

p.s. good to hear that the tomahawk is in the shop :lol:
 
Steve,

That was a great observation on that. I never considered that before....thank you!

Blessings

Doc
 
What if a Patriarchal Christian man truly WAS tied into God, and operated from Agape? And what if a single lady among us (regardless of age, education, financial resources, state of health, personal physical beauty, blah, blah, blah) was convinced of that fact and simply approached him at a retreat, saying, "I need an agape-loving husband / head / master / lord (little ell). There are no moral impediments. Will you take me as yours, please? I commit to learn and practice agape, and will adjust to your family as needed (moving, etc.)"? That plain and simple. No extensive ahead-of-time courtship. No long "getting to know you".
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I think that it could work if there's honesty and It could be "the time of courtship". Though the problem for most of us is the fear of the unknowns, the what ifs plague us. I don't think it's wrong for a single woman looking for a head covering to move in with an existing biblical family where the man is under Christ in leading his family. But there should be some type of agreement or pledge up front, where EVERYONE involved together commits themselves to serving the Lord and each other unselfishly no matter what happens.
 
Fairlight said:
Jim said:
I think that it could work if there's honesty
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If you just met the person, how do you judge their capacity for honesty?
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And one of the points of the OP was, "Does it matter?"

If YOU practice Agape, and THEY turn out to be stinkers (whichever side of the equation you are on), would God actually, adequately have your back? Help get you out? Recompense your loss? Whatever?

Intriguing and puzzling!
 
CecilW said:
"Does it matter?"
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yes it does.
God gave us brains because he wanted us to use them. Marrying someone you just met is foolish, IMHO. It may have worked for a few but for most it's a recipe for heartache.
 
Fairlight said:
CecilW said:
"Does it matter?"
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yes it does.
God gave us brains because he wanted us to use them. Marrying someone you just met is foolish, IMHO. It may have worked for a few but for most it's a recipe for heartache.
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Biblically, 'foolish' refers to "lacking knowledge of God", while 'wisdom' is its inverse. Perhaps you intend 'foolish' by the modern definition, which is typically thought of as a synonym for 'stupid' or something of that nature. In any case, my point is that if a man is 'wise' (i.e. has knowledge of God) and chooses a wife based upon her 'wisdom' (i.e. her expressed knowledge of God), I don't see why it would be foolish regardless of whether or not he just met her. Indeed, most people that know me think I can use my brain rather well. Nevertheless, many of my decisions have proved to be incorrect. Thus, using my brain is far less likely to be successful than simply pursuing what God tells me is worthy of pursuit.

However, I concede that I might feel this way because I decided that I wanted Diener to be my wife within (literally) a few conversations with her on the phone, and months in advance of ever meeting her in person. My rationale was that my heart leaped whenever I spoke to her, and it was obvious from the very beginning that she was a godly woman (i.e. the focus or her life was striving to obey and be pleasing to God). Thus, she was my heart's desire, and this desire proved to be entirely consistent with the wisdom expressed in scripture.

IMHO, when one finds a woman like that, it is best to seal the deal as rapidly as possible before another godly man beats you to it! ;-)
 
Oreslag said:
I don't see why it would be foolish regardless of whether or not he just met her.
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There's no guarantee either way but I have lost count how many stories (some of them from friends of mine...and yes, they were all believers) I have heard of quick marriages that went belly-up because they didn't look long enough before they leaped. One of them happened within the last few weeks. I am very suspicious of anyone advocating quickie marriages.
 
Fairlight said:
Oreslag said:
I don't see why it would be foolish regardless of whether or not he just met her.
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There's no guarantee either way but I have lost count how many stories (some of them from friends of mine...and yes, they were all believers) I have heard of quick marriages that went belly-up because they didn't look long enough before they leaped. One of them happened within the last few weeks. I am very suspicious of anyone advocating quickie marriages.
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I have to say I agree with you, in theory it would be wonderful to meet and just have everything work out, but I think real courtship is necessary. God does have our back, but he did give us brains, not just a heart and soul. I knew my ex husband for 6 years prior to marriage and the things that were good were great and for a while they made up for the things that were not so good. That was 6 years of knowing someone, spending most of that time together everyday because of our business. So I don't know....My fiance that died 9 years ago was like a soul mate so to speak, right away we knew, but he passed...so ????
 
Fairlight said:
Oreslag said:
I don't see why it would be foolish regardless of whether or not he just met her.
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There's no guarantee either way but I have lost count how many stories (some of them from friends of mine...and yes, they were all believers) I have heard of quick marriages that went belly-up because they didn't look long enough before they leaped. One of them happened within the last few weeks. I am very suspicious of anyone advocating quickie marriages.
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In my experience the same is true. However, the vast majority of the marriages I've encountered were not hastily entered, and these 'well-thought-out' marriages went belly-up as well. Indeed, I can count many more broken 'well-thought-out' marriages than 'quickie' marriages. In my experience, marital success doesn't seem to be well-correlated with the intent of those engaging in it, the quality of the rationale for so doing, or the time taken beforehand to contemplate the outcome. However, I've very little personal experience (two marriages), and I'm sure everything else I've heard has been highly biased, so who knows...

Please understand, I wasn't arguing that quickie marriages are superior, but neither do I believe that carefully considered marriages fare any better. As nearly as I can tell, a successful marriage is one of the best examples of grace I can come up with apart from regeneration, and certainly an act of provision on the part of our Lord.
 
Oreslag said:
Fairlight said:
Oreslag said:
I don't see why it would be foolish regardless of whether or not he just met her.
Click to expand...

There's no guarantee either way but I have lost count how many stories (some of them from friends of mine...and yes, they were all believers) I have heard of quick marriages that went belly-up because they didn't look long enough before they leaped. One of them happened within the last few weeks. I am very suspicious of anyone advocating quickie marriages.
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In my experience the same is true. However, the vast majority of the marriages I've encountered were not hastily entered, and these 'well-thought-out' marriages went belly-up as well. Indeed, I can count many more broken 'well-thought-out' marriages than 'quickie' marriages. In my experience, marital success doesn't seem to be well-correlated with the intent of those engaging in it, the quality of the rationale for so doing, or the time taken beforehand to contemplate the outcome. However, I've very little personal experience (two marriages), and I'm sure everything else I've heard has been highly biased, so who knows...

Please understand, I wasn't arguing that quickie marriages are superior, but neither do I believe that carefully considered marriages fare any better. As nearly as I can tell, a successful marriage is one of the best examples of grace I can come up with apart from regeneration, and certainly an act of provision on the part of our Lord.
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You know what in reading what you have said, you are right I have seen both types of marriages, quick and slow so to speak, and I have seen both types fail, mine included. I think though that the part that is missing (and I think that the point of this post was for us to debate this as Cecil stated) is God. I will admit that I knew God was not involved really in my marriage to my ex, yet I thought I was crazy in love. I knew and I didn't listen. If you are listening though and God is on your side, really on your side, like yelling in your ear "This is the one," it may not be crazy love at first site, but that can grow. I know that I have not listened to him in the past about this. So is it time that makes it right or wrong...it's not. We just have to listen, some of us do and it works, I did not so it didn't...if there is a next time I am listening I will tell you that.
 
lights12 said:
You know what in reading what you have said, you are right I have seen both types of marriages, quick and slow so to speak, and I have seen both types fail, mine included. I think though that the part that is missing (and I think that the point of this post was for us to debate this as Cecil stated) is God. I will admit that I knew God was not involved really in my marriage to my ex, yet I thought I was crazy in love. I knew and I didn't listen. If you are listening though and God is on your side, really on your side, like yelling in your ear "This is the one," it may not be crazy love at first site, but that can grow. I know that I have not listened to him in the past about this. So is it time that makes it right or wrong...it's not. We just have to listen, some of us do and it works, I did not so it didn't...if there is a next time I am listening I will tell you that.
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Yes, this was largely the point of my post. In particular, I don't believe for a moment that our intellect or reasoning makes a marriage successful. Indeed, it is most often just the opposite! I believe what makes a marriage successful is if we do it the way God commands, period; which brings us back to the point of the OP. I think this is the only hope for a truly successful marriage. It is also interesting to note that doing it God's way does not eliminate the possibility of marrying someone you hardly know.

Consider Isaac and Rebekah, for example. Completely arranged, and married from the moment they met, yet it was very successful. Thus the place for our intellect and reasoning is in better understanding God through His Word (and prayer of course) so that we are not deceived by the wicked tendencies of our hearts (i.e. pride, lust, rebellion, etc.) such that we damage the marriage He has given us beyond repair.
 
Oh, this is FUN!

I should ask outrageous questions more often! :lol:

Thank you all. I am enjoying te discussion!
 
Cecil, I had to look side ways to figure out what your pic was showing. too funny :oops:
 
CecilW said:
Oh, this is FUN!

I should ask outrageous questions more often! :lol:

Thank you all. I am enjoying te discussion!
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Yes you should....nothing like a good thought provoking discussion!!!
 
You know... some of what has been mentioned in this discussion (long, thought out courtships, versus quick, spontaneous ones) reminds me of my own engagement and marriage to Mr. Froggie: The first time I had him over for dinner to my mother's house, we were playing a board game on the floor.... I got up for something, and noticed he was already going bald at 30.... I silently prayed, "No, please Lord, NOT a bald man!" :lol: The night before Mr. Froggie was to propose to me, we were at the mall to buy some snow gloves. He left me to wait for him in the furniture department... as he was walking back to me with the gloves, I thought to myself, "He is SUCH a dork!" :lol: But I married him, and 20 years later, we are still in love! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Dwelling on this from a bit of a different pov.

I have a friend who I would be happy to have as a sister wife, I could not ever hurt her nor she me and we work very well together. However, we have vastly different tastes in men. Also, despite being mentally quite similar, have similar tastes and attitude we look very different and often men who are attracted to my type are not usually attracted toher type and visa versa for example, going on an opposite attracting situation, as a brunette, I almost always attract men with fair hair, as a blonde she almost always attracts dark haired men. So I was thinking for us to end up as wives of the same man, this sort of thing would have to be employed by one or even two of us wouldn't it?

hmmmm, thanks for the brain activity!

B
 
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