A Man in this day and age.

[Nikud]

There is a point when a Warrior must become the Wiseman. We fight the good fight, keep the faith. We grow into the position of Authority we were designed for. Not to just keep fighting but to equip others with the skills and knowledge we learned following in the footsteps of those who came before us.

Proverbs 27:17

17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend

The L-rd teaches us through trials and tribulations so that we have the experience to speak with Authority to the next generation of men. He then gives them there own crucible.

Psalm 66:10-12

For You have tried us, O G-d; You have refined us as silver is refined. You brought us into the net; You laid an oppressive burden upon our loins. You made men ride over our heads; We went through fire and through water, Yet You brought us out into a place of abundance.

This is how the L-rd forges leaders.

 

[Slumberfreeze]

I see a lot of laziness contributing to the lack of leadership in otherwise good men. It's easy to let the women run the show, especially since they're so eager for the job of telling people what to do.

 

[Red4252]

The reason I put Lack of patience

Reasons everyone can understand. Look at Jesus and everyone who did wrong to him and he kept
telling them the good words and trying to save people.

Now I have a kid and I look at him as my whole world next to my wife of course and under god. But still I digress. We are all gods children and look how much patience has he given you and me. Let's look at This how many times he corrects us or when we are talking to each other how little patience we seem to have. Most people won't take the time to tell you everything just that there right and your wrong. Why don't we sit and become friends with these people and let our actions change them. Instead we attack them. We tell them they need to change now(or the like there of). I have had more real and life changing experiences with these types of people by just talking to them and seeing how they are. And they will ask why you believe what you believe and this is when you change a person.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Some good points @Red4252 Glad to see you here and posting.

 

[Red4252]

Thank you Verifyvertas76

 

[joe88]

If He didn't make us with the capability to shut off then it would have been cruel for Him to command it. If He didn't give us empathy then there would no way to comeback from those actions to full fill the other roles He has for us.

I would suggest that empathy is something that should never be fully shut off. The problem a lot of people face in difficult situations is misplaced empathy. We need to shut off empathy for evil (in the case of the Canaanites) and fortify our empathy for the welfare of the Kingdom of God and the future generations to be brought into it. We don't return to other callings when we return from war, we continue the same calling of building, defending, and maintaining the Kingdom of God.

I saw a documentary once that talked about the inexplicably poor accuracy of most soldiers in battle, even though they had trained extensively and displayed accuracy on the range. Most subconsciously, but intentionally, miss their targets out of misplaced empathy. The researchers found that a single-digit percentage of soldiers do the majority of the killing. Within this group were found two distinct types: 1) the true psychopath who actually enjoys killing and delivers mayhem with utter disregard, and 2) those who perceive themselves as defenders of those in their troop and their nation by extension. If I were to take part in a righteous battle as in Bible times (most these days are based on lies, theft, power, money, and setting up the One-World system), I would put myself in the second group of warriors. When I got home, I would continue building, defending, and maintaining the Kingdom of God as always, but with a plowshare instead of a sword.

 

[Nikud]

) the true psychopath who actually enjoys killing and delivers mayhem with utter disregard, and 2) those who perceive themselves as defenders of those in their troop and their nation by extension. If I were to take part in a righteous battle as in Bible times (most these days are based onlies, theft, power, money, and setting up the One-World system), I would put myself in the second group of warriors. When I got home, I would continue building, defending, and maintaining the Kingdom of God as always, but with a plowshare instead of a sword. .

If you would have asked me before I was in the Army I would have put my self in the 2 category. The truth is I ended somewhere between during my service. Im not trying to be judgemental im just speaking from experience right now. It's easy to say how you would react to a situation but when we're actually confronted with the reality It is a diffrent thing.

 

[joe88]

If you would have asked me before I was in the Army

Experience is a great teacher. I'm going off of my reactions to my own life experiences and the things I've gone through, but you're right - you can't always know for sure until you're there.

 

[Mojo]

If you would have asked me before I was in the Army I would have put my self in the 2 category. The truth is I ended somewhere between during my service. Im not trying to be judgemental im just speaking from experience right now. It's easy to say how you would react to a situation but when we're actually confronted with the reality It is a diffrent thing.

My father rarely watched war movies about his campaign. He said they were usually made by men who had never been in war, and couldn't even begin to convey what he saw and experienced.

A cousin of mine, who sat in a submarine off the coast of a land war, tried to tell him how he had experienced war just as terrifying as my father did because he was on "alert" in case something happened. My father just shook his head wondering just how much more foolishness would come out of my cousin's mouth.

 

[cnystrom]

I am aware that some definitions/signs of masculinity are cultural, not universal. Which ones would you ascribe as universal (across cultures)?

I am not sure that I would agree with this. The universal is Christ and the church with Christ in the masculine role and the church in the feminine role. For this reason I would say that submission is a feminine quality, but that real men should embrace this feminine quality because real men embrace the feminine role as a member of the (feminine) church towards (masculine) Christ and as leadership examples to church and family.

 

[Mojo]

I am not sure that I would agree with this. The universal is Christ and the church with Christ in the masculine role and the church in the feminine role. For this reason I would say that submission is a feminine quality, but that real men should embrace this feminine quality because real men embrace the feminine role as a member of the (feminine) church towards (masculine) Christ and as leadership examples to church and family.

I meant more in gender roles. Who cooks, cleans, decorates, gardens, hunts, plays sports, fishes....

Culturally speaking, some men wouldn't dare be caught cooking, or cleaning a toilet.

I was thinking more of "women's intersts vs. men's intersts", etc.

 

[cnystrom]

I meant more in gender roles. Who cooks, cleans, decorates, gardens, hunts, plays sports, fishes....

Culturally speaking, some men wouldn't dare be caught cooking, or cleaning a toilet.

I was thinking more of "women's intersts vs. men's intersts", etc.

Ah! As far as who does what I have long thought that basically all of the work is the man's work and the wife is supposed to help him to do it. A well run household needs an income to be earned, money for expenses, cleaning, cooking, teaching the kids, etc. Basically since the man is the leader ALL of that is his work, but he has a wife to help him to accomplish that. They can divide it up however they want, but the man needs to ensure that it gets done one way or another and sometimes that might mean he has to do it himself, including cooking, changing diapers or cleaning a toilet, or whatever it takes to get the job done.

The man that can not get his hands dirty doing certain tasks is like the general who can only lead from the rear and is never seen at the front lines especially when he orders the charge. Never ask someone else to do something that you are not willing to do yourself. It is a basic rule of leadership.

Ideally, I think the best method is for the entire family to work together. For example, Saturday mornings is house cleaning time for us. The whole family gets up in the morning, we make our beds, have breakfast and then we all work together to clean the house top to bottom, clean up the yard, and wash the cars. Well ideally. We do not always have time to get everthing done, but the main goal is for everyone to work together so that everyone can then relax when we are done. No one is exempt. Work first and then play. Work hard and then play hard. That is the theory anyway.

 

[Mojo]

I see your point, and we do much the same thing, but not EVERY Saturday.

My overall point, though, was "Is a man/boy less masculine if he ENJOYS activities/behaviors that certain cultures see as feminine?"

"Are there purely masculine actions, gestures, etc?"

No knock on Asians, but some gestures/actions that are seen as appropriate for them are seen as feminine in Western culture.

Two men holding hands in some countries is acceptable, not here in the US (unless you are homosexual).

Mediterranean/Semitic cultures encourage men embracing and kissing. It's even biblical! But our culture sees it as a feminine action.

Get where I'm coming from?

 

[andrew]

Ideally, I think the best method is for the entire family to work together.

Second.

 

[cnystrom]

Second.

When the whole family works together it hardly seems like work anymore. It just seems like family time. Good family time.

 

[andrew]

Good family time.

Maybe the best family time. Leisure time activities provide necessary R&R, but the work you do together, what you create together, obstacles you overcome together—that's the stuff that builds unit cohesion.

 

[Nikud]

work you do together, what you create together, obstacles you overcome together—that's the stuff that builds unit cohesion.

That's why I keep looking more and more at families working together in Ministry as the best way. It Strengthens the familial bonds and the faith.

 

[andrew]

That's why I keep looking more and more at families working together in Ministry as the best way. It Strengthens the familial bonds and the faith.

My stock answer to "how do I find a second wife?" is "get out there and build the kingdom, and God will provide the helpers meet for your need". Relationships grounded in co-laboring in the harvest fields of the Lord are the best. And working together is a great and relatively painless way for fathers to teach their children some "real world, out of the nest" skills, both practical and social.

 

[Red4252]

Just reading the last couple of posts just got very deep I think I need to re-read the whole thing

 

[Mojo]

My wife and I were involved in a potential sales transaction recently. We were sitting at a desk listening to the presentation and discussing the proposition. There were a lot of emotional pleas that were certainly directed at my wife. Towards the end, the salesman got up to grab some paperwork, and my wife got up to tend to the children. She ended up not returning. The salesman asked where she was. I told him she wasn't going to return to the conversation.

His exact quote was " Oh, okay. I guess it's happy husband, happy life, then." I didn't say a word. The picture in front of him had already said enough.

It was a rephrasing of "happy wife, happy life".

The assumption of most salesmen is that the wife rules. They often request (require) both spouses to be present.

I was happy to at least be one witness to contradict his assumptions.

Chalk one up for strong, head of household, male leadership.