1 Timothy 4 "some shall depart from the faith" "Forbidding to marry" Blasphemy!

[Mr.M]

Well what they are doing, is misapplying Matt 5:32, where Jesus said that a husband causes his wife to commit adultery except in the case of fornication, and warping that verse to say that a person can divorce their spouse in the case of fornication. They pull the same nonsense with v. 28 where Jesus explicitly said that the person who does this commits adultery with HER in HIS heart, and they insert the words "or man". You see this done everywhere!

Adultery of the heart is lusting after another mans wife. Read verse 10, the disciples would NOT have said it was better not to marry if divorce was still allowed.

Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

 

[steve]

Why does verse 7 say “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
It says BOTH "certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"

Putting away with the certificate of divorce is the only acceptable method of divorce.
Putting away without the certificate of divorce is what causes adultery.

It’s that simple.
Both statements were made in the context, but Yeshuah was making a distinction beyond their question. He saw the heart of their stuff.

 

[steve]

Adultery of the heart is lusting after another mans wife. Read verse 10, the disciples would NOT have said it was better not to marry if divorce was still allowed.

Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

The disciples were merely giving their opinion, you can’t make doctrine out of what Yeshuah did not say.

 

[Mark C]

Why does verse 7 say “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
It says BOTH "certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"

The process outlined twice, in Deuteronomy 24:1 and again in v3, specifies BOTH parts. But the translation is poor, because there IS a situation in which she may be "put away" but NOT given a 'sefer keretutah.'* Moshe does not "command" both, he gives the process so THAT, "she may go and be another man's [isha; wife]. " As it says clearly in the very next verse.

When a man divorces his wife, he causes her to commit adultery because she cant remarry unless he dies.

Wrong. Read verse 2. Yahushua did NOT contradict Himself.

If you have a translation that says He does - guess who is in error?

So, again. Those 'translations'...

... are misleading, deceptive, and downright false.

But you missed THE MAIN POINT. "Divorce," is not remotely the same as merely "putting away." As the PROCESS repeated twice, that Yahushua referenced, makes clear. A woman who is ONLY 'put away' but does NOT have a 'sefer keretutah' is STILL MARRIED. She still HAS a 'living husband.'

And some guy who marries HER "commits adultery."

And the guy who 'put away' his wife, who was NOT ALREADY an adulteress is guilty: He "causes HER to commit adultery."

The difference is profound.

And once you see it, undeniable. Yahushua was in fact, the "Torah [Word] Made Flesh." He did NOT contradict Himself.




---------------------------------------
* Hint: YHVH Himself did it with Judah, the southern kingdom!!! She was a whore, but did NOT receive a 'get'.

 

[Mr.M]

Putting away with the certificate of divorce is the only acceptable method of divorce.
Putting away without the certificate of divorce is what causes adultery.

It’s that simple.
Both statements were made in the context, but Yeshuah was making a distinction beyond their question. He saw the heart of their stuff.

If that's true then why did the disciples say its better not to marry? Because divorce is no longer allowed except when a woman commits sexual immorality then her husband can divorce her.

Matthew 19
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

 

[Mr.M]

The disciples were merely giving their opinion, you can’t make doctrine out of what Yeshuah did not say.

Im not, The Son clearly told us divorce is not allowed except for husbands divorcing cheating wives. Think about it, why would the disciples say its better not to marry if divorce was still allowed. They said its better not to marry because man cannot separate what the Most High has brought together!

Matthew 19
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Matthew 19
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

 

[Mr.M]

The process outlined twice, in Deuteronomy 24:1 and again in v3, specifies BOTH parts. But the translation is poor, because there IS a situation in which she may be "put away" but NOT given a 'sefer keretutah.'* Moshe does not "command" both, he gives the process so THAT, "she may go and be another man's [isha; wife]. " As it says clearly in the very next verse.


Wrong. Read verse 2. Yahushua did NOT contradict Himself.

If you have a translation that says He does - guess who is in error?

So, again. Those 'translations'...


But you missed THE MAIN POINT. "Divorce," is not remotely the same as merely "putting away." As the PROCESS repeated twice, that Yahushua referenced, makes clear. A woman who is ONLY 'put away' but does NOT have a 'sefer keretutah' is STILL MARRIED. She still HAS a 'living husband.'

And some guy who marries HER "commits adultery."

And the guy who 'put away' his wife, who was NOT ALREADY an adulteress is guilty: He "causes HER to commit adultery."

The difference is profound.

And once you see it, undeniable. Yahushua was in fact, the "Torah [Word] Made Flesh." He did NOT contradict Himself.




---------------------------------------
* Hint: YHVH Himself did it with Judah, the southern kingdom!!! She was a whore, but did NOT receive a 'get'.

So you believe His law cannot be updated or changed? Do you stone people to death for not keeping the sabbath like the law says? Or do you listen to NT saying to not judge people for how they observe sabbaths? I assume you don't kill people for working on the sabbath. But you deny the many verses saying divorce is not allowed anymore and because of that its better not to marry. What do you think of this verse?

2 Thessalonians 2
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

^ Fear Him. If you don't love the truth He sends a strong delusion so you may believe the lie because you had pleasure in unrighteousness (sleeping with other men's wives & remarriage after initiating divorce, aka adultery)

Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

^ Since divorce isn't allowed anymore, they said its better not to marry. They wouldn't have said this if He was only talking about "putting away."

 

[steve]

If that's true then why did the disciples say its better not to marry?

It’s just a comment that they made.
Kinda like; Whoa, that’s pretty heavy, it looks like it’s better not to marry.

Because divorce is no longer allowed except when a woman commits sexual immorality then her husband can divorce her.

What distinction became new?
The penalty for adultery was stoning, js.

 

[steve]

Im not, The Son clearly told us divorce is not allowed except for husbands divorcing cheating wives. Think about it, why would the disciples say its better not to marry if divorce was still allowed. They said its better not to marry because man cannot separate what the Most High has brought together!

Matthew 19
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Matthew 19
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

No, you are making an assumption, and creating doctrine from your assumption.

 

[Mr.M]

The process outlined twice, in Deuteronomy 24:1 and again in v3, specifies BOTH parts. But the translation is poor, because there IS a situation in which she may be "put away" but NOT given a 'sefer keretutah.'* Moshe does not "command" both, he gives the process so THAT, "she may go and be another man's [isha; wife]. " As it says clearly in the very next verse.


Wrong. Read verse 2. Yahushua did NOT contradict Himself.

If you have a translation that says He does - guess who is in error?

So, again. Those 'translations'...


But you missed THE MAIN POINT. "Divorce," is not remotely the same as merely "putting away." As the PROCESS repeated twice, that Yahushua referenced, makes clear. A woman who is ONLY 'put away' but does NOT have a 'sefer keretutah' is STILL MARRIED. She still HAS a 'living husband.'

And some guy who marries HER "commits adultery."

And the guy who 'put away' his wife, who was NOT ALREADY an adulteress is guilty: He "causes HER to commit adultery."

The difference is profound.

And once you see it, undeniable. Yahushua was in fact, the "Torah [Word] Made Flesh." He did NOT contradict Himself.




---------------------------------------
* Hint: YHVH Himself did it with Judah, the southern kingdom!!! She was a whore, but did NOT receive a 'get'.

No, you are making an assumption, and creating doctrine from your assumption.

Not quite, I just seek His will above mine.

Romans 7
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

 

[Mr.M]

The process outlined twice, in Deuteronomy 24:1 and again in v3, specifies BOTH parts. But the translation is poor, because there IS a situation in which she may be "put away" but NOT given a 'sefer keretutah.'* Moshe does not "command" both, he gives the process so THAT, "she may go and be another man's [isha; wife]. " As it says clearly in the very next verse.


Wrong. Read verse 2. Yahushua did NOT contradict Himself.

If you have a translation that says He does - guess who is in error?

So, again. Those 'translations'...


But you missed THE MAIN POINT. "Divorce," is not remotely the same as merely "putting away." As the PROCESS repeated twice, that Yahushua referenced, makes clear. A woman who is ONLY 'put away' but does NOT have a 'sefer keretutah' is STILL MARRIED. She still HAS a 'living husband.'

And some guy who marries HER "commits adultery."

And the guy who 'put away' his wife, who was NOT ALREADY an adulteress is guilty: He "causes HER to commit adultery."

The difference is profound.

And once you see it, undeniable. Yahushua was in fact, the "Torah [Word] Made Flesh." He did NOT contradict Himself.




---------------------------------------
* Hint: YHVH Himself did it with Judah, the southern kingdom!!! She was a whore, but did NOT receive a 'get'.

It’s just a comment that they made.
Kinda like; Whoa, that’s pretty heavy, it looks like it’s better not to marry.

What distinction became new?
The penalty for adultery was stoning, js.

It’s just a comment that they made.
Kinda like; Whoa, that’s pretty heavy, it looks like it’s better not to marry.

What distinction became new?
The penalty for adultery was stoning, js.

Do you really believe that? How do you explain this verse then?
Romans 7
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

 

[steve]

Not quite, I just seek His will above mine.

Romans 7
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

It’s simple, unless she has a certificate of divorce, she has a husband.

 

[Mark C]

The Son clearly told us divorce is not allowed except for husbands divorcing cheating wives.

WRONG! He said nothing of the sort, rendered correctly. He said you SHOULDN'T do it at all - which is the far more likely reason the disciples said what they did.

An adulterous wife MAY be put away without a get. It was a KINDNESS that YHVH showed Israel, the whoring northern kingdom, to give her a certificate. He did not have to.

And note that the alternative, for the adulterous wife, may well (and often was) death.

And a man can put away an adulterous wife. She is ALREADY an adulteress. It is the one who is put away without a certificate that you don't evidently understand.

 

[Mark C]

So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress;

Duh. If she has a living husband, and commits adultery, she's an adulteress. QED.

If he puts her away, and gives her a certificate to that effect - she now no longer HAS a "living husband." And, as He says, "she may be another man's [wife.] QED.

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

Im not, The Son clearly told us divorce is not allowed except for husbands divorcing cheating wives. Think about it, why would the disciples say its better not to marry if divorce was still allowed. They said its better not to marry because man cannot separate what the Most High has brought together!

Matthew 19
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Matthew 19
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

What is stated in 19:6 is "what God has joined together let no man separate". BUT, God provided divorce in his law. So, when a divorce is completed, he does not see them as joined together.

The question being posed to him was originally NOT about divorce but about putting away. IE. "Separation" !! So, if they are STILL married, no one should cause them to be separated or PUT AWAY. What God is REALLY saying is this, if you are married to a woman, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HER! Do not put her away. Do not separate from her. You are her headship and provider and protection. While married, you OWE her food, clothing, shelter and opportunities for babies to come into the picture. How can you provide all that while separated from her?

You can't. So, let no man separate what God hath joined together.

 

[Mr.M]

What is stated in 19:6 is "what God has joined together let no man separate". BUT, God provided divorce in his law. So, when a divorce is completed, he does not see them as joined together.

The question being posed to him was originally NOT about divorce but about putting away. IE. "Separation" !! So, if they are STILL married, no one should cause them to be separated or PUT AWAY. What God is REALLY saying is this, if you are married to a woman, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HER! Do not put her away. Do not separate from her. You are her headship and provider and protection. While married, you OWE her food, clothing, shelter and opportunities for babies to come into the picture. How can you provide all that while separated from her?

You can't. So, let no man separate what God hath joined together.

Then why do they say this?
Matthew 19
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
Because divorce is no longer allowed, just like we no longer put to death people who work on the sabbath. Things changed because He changed them.
Romans 7
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

 

[Mr.M]

WRONG! He said nothing of the sort, rendered correctly. He said you SHOULDN'T do it at all - which is the far more likely reason the disciples said what they did.

An adulterous wife MAY be put away without a get. It was a KINDNESS that YHVH showed Israel, the whoring northern kingdom, to give her a certificate. He did not have to.

And note that the alternative, for the adulterous wife, may well (and often was) death.

And a man can put away an adulterous wife. She is ALREADY an adulteress. It is the one who is put away without a certificate that you don't evidently understand.

By chance have you slept with, or married a woman who "used" to be another mans wife?

2 Thessalonians 2
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Mr.M]

It’s simple, unless she has a certificate of divorce, she has a husband.

By chance have you slept with or married a woman who "used" to be another mans wife?

2 Thessalonians 2
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

 

[OttoM]

By chance have you slept with, or married a woman who "used" to be another mans wife?

2 Thessalonians 2
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The Word is truth. The Word can not be changed. If you believe an apostle changed or spoke against the “truth,” then you haven’t properly divided the word; or you’re using a bad translation.

“It’s better not to marry.” Obviously, there was a problem going around with men sending away their wives without a certificate. Perhaps, even with un-just cause. Perhaps because they simply wanted to trade the older model for the newer model. Who knows. Yahushua is simply telling them - if you don’t give them a certificate - but instead you simply send them out of your house - you’ve caused them to commit adultery. Why? Because she will likely sleep with another man, and without a certificate she still has a husband.

Now - why wouldn’t a man get a certificate? Probably the same reason a man would avoid it today! It’s expensive getting a certificate. There may of been some financial cost to getting the certificate; just like there is today. Way cheaper verbally telling her, and sending her out of your house.

The Pharisees were asking a question - “can a man divorce for any reason?” They should know better. Yahushua was telling them marriage is supposed to be forever. However, due to sin, a man has a right from the Most High to “righteously” give a certificate of divorce for something “unclean.” Just like the Creator did for his own wife. Man is made in the image of the Most High. He is the ruler and head of his house. But if the reason is unjust - don’t be surprised if the Almighty throws you out of his kingdom for something small as well.

Once the man properly divorces her - she can remarry. Why? Because the Creator of the Universe said so. A faulty translation can’t contradict his word. KJV has errors. All modern ones too. If you build your house on the rock - and believe in his words - pray and seek diligently - the truth surely will set you free from the lies and leaven that religious bondage has over billions of people today.






1 Corinthians 7:15
15But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. 16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

^ Is Paul contradicting his Master? Or is he simply speaking according to the truth?

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

Then why do they say this?
Matthew 19
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
Because divorce is no longer allowed, just like we no longer put to death people who work on the sabbath. Things changed because He changed them.

That is a Leap! You are claiming that you can read the minds of the disciples. You are claiming to know their thoughts. That is not a credible claim.

Romans 7
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

Verse 2 says that she CAN be released from the law of her husband. The first part of the verse sets it up so that we understand that death is one way that she can be released.

Verse 3 reiterates the point so that we KNOW that the point of these verses is that she is released in the case of death.

These verses do NOT say that there is no other mechanism for her to be released from the law of her husband.



Mat 5:31 “And it has been said, ‘Whoever puts away his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ Deu_24:1.
Mat 5:32 “But I say to you that whoever puts away his wife, except for the matter of whoring,h makes her commit adultery. And whoever marries a woman who has been put away commits adultery.

Notice that verse 31 says that anyone who is going to put away his wife should also give her a certificate of divorce.
(again, God does not want people put away who are still married)
verse 32 says that whoever marries a woman who is "PUT AWAY" commits adultery.

But, if the woman is released from her husband, then she is freed to go and marry another.

Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.


God is consistent and his law does not change!