God's Laws vs. the laws of men

[MeganC]

A lot of European countries call their 7th day of the week after “Shabbat.” So that tells me he cares.

I used to know a lot of people who worked in the hospitality industry. Their days off were typically Monday and Tuesday.

If such people were inclined to call Monday or Tuesday their Sabbath then what's the problem?

 

[steve]

Label me a heretic all you want, but I reached a personal compromise with Yah.
For business reasons we have chosen to temporarily hold our Shabbat on Sunday.
But wait, it gets worse.
Being in the trucking industry, weekends are often just an illusion. I do get more Sundays off than any other day, so there is that.
I do honor the day in not spending any money, even to the extent of not getting that free coffee refill, because it required someone to make it.

I do believe that the time will come when Yah requires us to go all-in on the day that He chooses, and I am prepared make the sacrifices that will be required.

 

[Off-Grid Artist]

The Jewish calendar as we know it was created by the scholar Hillel in about 358 BC.

Just for the sake of clarity, it was AD, not BC. I have a mentor friend, he has a conspiracy theory that Hillel worked for Constantine to subvert the Jews and to hide the real Shabbat.

That friend is a good man. He's a lunar Sabbath observer, which I am not. However, he believes also that the true Sabbath has been hidden from us and will be restored during the Second Coming. His view is that the real Sabbath was lost when the sun was moved backwards on the stairs by Yahweh for Hezekiah.

It's a topic I've been researching but not convinced enough of either direction.

I spent a long time out in the world. I worked in nightclubs and bars for many years. And, during times when I didn't work in those places, I was often in them anyway. I've always been social, and drawn to the center of the "celebration." I like to use the term "revelry."

Instinctually I feel compelled to accept that we have it right with Saturday primarily because Friday nights and Saturdays are THE time that the "world of revelry" parties hard. The majority of the world let's go of the workaday week and seeks oblivion in partying. For many people it is the greatest distraction. That lifestyle feels very much like the Luciferian inversion of the Biblical Sabbath.

I'm willing to accept that we have the wrong day. I don't believe that, but it's a discussion I don't mind. The idea that we can just make up our own minds, however, that idea isn't supported by scripture. It feels Luciferian in nature, the idea that I can create my own sense of what is sin and what isn't sin.

Yahweh rested on the seventh day and sanctified it. Maybe that's Tuesday, or the seventh day of the moon cycle after the not-counted zero day of reset. I have a hard time with the lunar calendar because it isn't every seven days, and they can't even seem to get it right between themselves. We know a lot of lunar people and they're always asking each other what their next month's Sabbath day will be and comparing notes.

 

[MeganC]

Just for the sake of clarity, it was AD, not BC.

You are right.

I'm willing to accept that we have the wrong day.

I'm not saying that you or anyone else is right or wrong. God just said to honor the Sabbath and He said this long before anyone cooked up a calendar.

One day in seven we should reserve for the Lord. Pretty simple to me.

At the same time, when my family observed a formal church situation it was often lost on me how Sunday was supposed to be a day of rest. I certainly didn't rest. I baked, I dressed the kids for church, I dressed my husband on occasion, I had to dress, and then when we got home I was in the kitchen making lunch and prepping dinner. My rest came when I went to bed on Sunday night.

Also, when you have animals and livestock they don't care what day it is. They need to be fed, if you have cows they need to be milked, vet calls happen regardless of the day on the calendar, and etc.

If I can catch a day for myself then that will be my Sabbath. One of these days I'll have one.

 

[Victorious]

Scripture (God) gives instruction on the care of animals on the one day He chose and blessed. You will never find that blessing on a day of your choosing. What if I show up for my dentist appointment on the day I choose? That would neither get me served nor uphold the agreement.
The calendars man devised have had 5, 7, 8, 10, or some other set of days. Only one system is given in the first chapter of the Word. It is not compatible with any manmade "week".
He made it for us. Never gave it to us. Required it as the 4th of 10.

 

[Otto]

The 321(?) AD Edict

• The Law: Constantine ordered that;“On the venerable Day of the sun, let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.

It was a political move - to reunite the Roman Empire - who were worshippers of Sol Invictus - with the church. It wasn’t long that the church followed the culture/state/roman empire:


Council of Laodicea (363-364?)

• The Decree: Canon 29 stated that Christians should not "Judaize" by resting on the Saturday Sabbath, but should instead treat it as a regular working day while resting on Sunday as Christians if possible.
• The Penalty: Those caught continuing to rest or "Judaize" on the Saturday Sabbath faced being barred or declared anathema (separated) from Christ by the church leadership

Of course, persecution stopped and so many Christians today hail Constantine for ending persecution. But, as we can read in the decree, persecution didn’t stop for those that wanted to obey God’s commandments over men.

 

[MeganC]

The Council of Laodicea could have set the Sabbath on Thursday.

It's also entirely possible that when they set it as Sunday they were inadvertently putting it back to the right date.

Thus the flaws in the laws of men are revealed in their ambiguity.

 

[Mojo]

@MeganC
Thanks. I now think I understand your position but a few things are a bit foggy so I’m not sure how much we disagree.

The one flaw I think I see in your reasoning is how you are certain that the 10 are written by God himself? Isn’t the only way you would know it was written by him revealed in the very scriptures you say are potentially human influenced? Could that narrative have been exaggerated or embellished?

Perhaps I misunderstand your position. If so, please correct.

 

[MeganC]

The one flaw I think I see in your reasoning is how you are certain that the 10 are written by God himself? Isn’t the only way you would know it was written by him revealed in the very scriptures you say are potentially human influenced? Could that narrative have been exaggerated or embellished?

When Moses presented the tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments to the Israelites bear in mind that Joshua was a stone mason and among the tribes were hundreds and perhaps thousands of the best stone cutters, stone masons, and stone sculptors in the ancient world.

Had the Ten Commandments shown any evidence of having been hewn by a human hand the assemblage present would have called BS on them.

Instead the Commandments were accepted by these people which to me is clear evidence that they had ruled out a human origin for the tablets.

Could that narrative have been exaggerated or embellished?

Ya' think?

 

[Victorious]

When Moses presented the tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments to the Israelites bear in mind that Joshua was a stone mason and among the tribes were hundreds and perhaps thousands of the best stone cutters, stone masons, and stone sculptors in the ancient world.

Had the Ten Commandments shown any evidence of having been hewn by a human hand the assemblage present would have called BS on them.

Instead the Commandments were accepted by these people which to me is clear evidence that they had ruled out a human origin for the tablets.

Could that narrative have been exaggerated or embellished?

Ya' think?

View attachment 12383

Please provide sources for these claims. I do not remember reading about these detailed examinations anywhere...

 

[Mojo]

When Moses presented the tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments to the Israelites bear in mind that Joshua was a stone mason and among the tribes were hundreds and perhaps thousands of the best stone cutters, stone masons, and stone sculptors in the ancient world.

Had the Ten Commandments shown any evidence of having been hewn by a human hand the assemblage present would have called BS on them.

Instead the Commandments were accepted by these people which to me is clear evidence that they had ruled out a human origin for the tablets.

Could that narrative have been exaggerated or embellished?

Ya' think?

View attachment 12383

but your proof is still within the narrative of the writings you say are human influenced. It’s circular.

 

[MeganC]

Please provide sources for these claims. I do not remember reading about these detailed examinations anywhere...

It's a given that the tablets were examined. The Levites certainly examined them and handled the tablets when they were put into the Ark of The Covenant. They were certainly examined by at least tribal elders and tribal leaders to justify the donations of extravagant wealth to construct the first mobile Tabernacle.

They were subsequently examined over the centuries by Levites and they were certainly examined by the various Kings and ministers who authorized extravagant allocations of funds for the construction and maintenance of the Temples.

And every one of these people who laid eyes on those Tablets knew that they were the work of the Hand of God. While this was never explicitly stated in the Bible it had to be true or else someone would have called bull*hit and said that the Tablets were cut by a human hand.

but your proof is still within the narrative of the writings you say are human influenced. It’s circular.

See the above.

The narrative in question is not just backed by words but by evidence that withstood immediate and subsequent scrutiny.

The Temple in Jerusalem was built to house the Tablets and the remains of that Temple exist to this day. That is evidence.