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why we are not courting at this time

steve

steve

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
those uncertain, depressed times have really knocked the insides out of trucking
we find ourselves in a "financially embarrassed" position at a time when we would dearly love to reach out to a sister in need
we have what is considered (in many circles) an "unusual" understanding of a poly relationship. that is, that a woman could expect her financial needs to be met by her husband. not that she can sit on the couch and eat bon-bons all day. we admire the proverbs 31 woman. the synergistic family will produce multiple streams of income (with a tip of the hat to revgill). it is just that the ultimate financial responsibility belongs to the husband if he wishes to be a patriarch rather than a partner.

we see all too often that girls are courted and offered an isaiah 4:1 position in which they are responsible for their own (and maybe even part of the rest of the families) expenses. what ali and i see in that verse is that the women make that particular proposal and are not wooed into it.

we very much agree with the fact that families can be combined and live more cheaply than alone and would welcome those with open arms (providing that it is a "fit" of course), but we will abstain from courting someone under these conditions.

i am not trying to push my own point of view here and am sorry if it feels contentious or finger-pointing. i do not want to argue with anyone about it. it is just my understanding and i will walk in it unless and until the Holy Spirit leads me otherwise. i mostly bring it here as my explanation of why we appear so poly-supportive without "walking-the-walk".

i realize that most single women are not taught that they have the option and right to approach a family that they admire and would consider joining. ( done mostly through a third party in Bible times. although we see that ruth did not use one with boaz in that beautiful story. :!: :D ) just think, girls, you have opportunities galore ;)
 
I agree heartily with you sir. A man has to be able to provide for his new wife without diminishing the portion of the first wife.
 
Well said! If you can not support the family you have right now, then you need to take care of those finances before you are able too take in a second or third wife. I mean really how can you help any one if you can not help your self? I know of a few families who only take in a wife as a way for extra income. To me this is just wrong. To me marriage is about love, not a business deal. Maybe I am wrong, but that's how I feel. If I wanted extra income I'd just rent a room. Ya know? I really believe if the only reason you want a second or third wife is for more money, then it's probably isn't going to last long. Also people involved are only going to be in a worse rutt then they were to began with. It is very rare people fall in love with one another when they feel like they are only being used. When we do decide on a sister wife to take in I want her to know she is loved and supported in all aspects of her life. In turn we would also want the same from her. I would want a woman who's main concern is "being a family"! When you are a family then the rest will follow! In a family no one get left behind! When I was little in Tonga we had a saying wich was "Ohana"! It means "Family are bound together and members must cooperate and remember one another so no one is ever forgotten"! In a PM it is the same way you are taking in the sister wife, her children, her debts are your debts. Her family be it how ever functional or disfunctional become your family. You become ONE PERSON one family unit! This is why I say with out being in it for love, PM or even monogamy will not work. When you can not take care of your family out of love then people get left behind, to me that's not a family!
 
thanx guys, and well said.
this is the ONLY way to avoid using women in my never to be considered humble opinion
this is not to say that relationships will not or cannot work where the woman must be in any sense the provider. we went through a period of time when i was sick when my wife was our only provider and it was one of the toughest times in my life. conversely, when she went to iraq for 3 years and was making more than double my income it was never about the money. she felt no pressure to be there for the income but she/we felt that she was led of the Lord there. she wrote a book about it (shameless plug: Ballad for Baghdad, by Ali Turner). she would love to go back (and i could SOOO use the money :!: :lol: ) but i feel that she is being called to other things now.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't want to go back? 2 years there was enough for me! :ugeek:
 
Oooohhh! This is good. And I both agree and disagree. Gotta jump in! But right now gotta get ready to go to the hospital for more hydrotherapy. Will plan to weigh in later today.
 
great, cece
i look forward to your input with interest
 
STORY TIME:

Once upon a time, I was so down and out ...
** I hadn't had work for a year and a half, ever since my wife had filed for divorce. Was living on irregular work that averaged about $500/mo. + a few handouts from my mom and dad. The mortgage on my house was $1300, not to mention water, power, phone, DSL, and fax line. Getting food at a food bank once a month. Do the math.
** Oh, and Child Support. Miss one payment and the state pulled my driver's license. Don't get the hint? A Sheriff would come pick me up on a warrant for a session. Oregon is hard nosed. Some months I walked. 1.5 miles to the grocery store. 1.5 miles home.
** I lived in a 32' trailer in my own driveway. A large family, consisting of 9 members, lived in my home. The deal was that they'd pay $500/mo rent + the utilities -- except they weren't, and I was having to pay everrything, which wasn't working so well. Oh, and they'd taken over the DSL, so I was on dial-up over the fax line ... You get the picture.

This was the situation when I was asked by a friend to talk to a lady who needed someone to talk to. Turns out, she was in a worse situation than I, though the details were very different. 12 weeks later, I drove 14 hours to get her and bring her home and give her somewhere SAFE while we figured out what to do next. We've now been together 7 years and 2 weeks. Only 43 to go til our Golden. ;)

During that time, we got down to living in a storage/shop with a half bath and a couple outlets. And we've been up to living in a 5 bed 3 bath with an in-ground pool in the nice part of town. Right now we're somewhere in between.

So my perspective doesn't come as "Don't court until you can support nicely." Sorry. My take on the "A man must provide for his family" is that the instruction has to do with the DISTRIBUTION of whatever provision is available, over which he has authority and control, rather than with adequate ACQUISITION, over which he does not.

He, and all family members can work their tails off! But Deuteronomy 8:18 and other passages make it plain that the provision, the success, the profit from the work, comes from God.

What IS in his power is the distribution of what comes into the family. That's where his male headship comes into play.

That's where he says, "We're family. Family sticks together and takes care of each other. All of us. No matter how large or small God's blessing on us, you WILL share equally in that provision. If that means we're picking up pop cans beside the road to turn in to get a dozen eggs and a roll of TP, part of it is for you. If we're prospering, and moving into a mansion with paid off His 'n' Hers 'n' Hers Jags in the drive, one of 'em is yours."

THAT, to my mind, is husbandly provision for his family. And yes, of course, it presumes he is doing his best in the aquisition phase as well.

To my mind, so long as a man and his wife have that ATTITUDE towards the finances, and are willing to accept a wife (and kids) who will accept those terms as well, they're walking the walk. Active searching and courting are acceptable but not required. God can dump someone in your lap and say, "Love HER!" when you least expect it! He did to me.

It's easy to meet a woman who will PROFESS to accept those terms if you pay her air ticket to come visit, pick her up in a late model Escalade, and take her home to your 24 room home & indoor pool on your 2000 acre horse ranch.

It's a bit different if she needs to bring a sleeping bag, and you'll share your rice & beans.

But which profession of agreement will you trust more? And which shared experience will build a stronger team spirit in the family? Growing from the ground up with the sole starting wealth being love and ambition? Or stepping into a prosperous situation with no struggle?

Of COURSE we men want to provide, and provide handsomely. But take THAT up with God. Our PRIDE is involved. In the meantime, I suggest having your hearts wide open and accepting. So long as you have the ability to share SOMETHING with someone else, you're not poor. Even if it is but a can of Beefaroni with a hungry neighbor.

And if you're not poor, keep your arms and hearts wide open and accepting. If God is keeping those in your family from starving so far, than He's perfectly able to keep all y'alls from starving if He adds some more.
 
Well said Cecil! I was talking more so what I have seen on a few other sites. I have seen people only looking for a second wife to help pay bills. I am talking about having a wife cause you love her. I do believe if you are in a shelter or very close then maybe you are not ready. I have been unemployed before and have always made it. When I first met my wife I wasn't looking for one. I was homeless more so by choice( the whole conserve the earth thing, if any one remembered the group of people that did that) Was working on my own and making money. For some reason once I met Becky and I feel in love with her, I wanted to take care of her. I saved and got a place for us so she never had to worry about the elements. I am not saying that you have to have a big house. You at least need a home to take care of your family. As much as some would like to say that isn't important, when CPS or CYFD comes knocking on your door or your campsite it will be. I have a few members who took in a second wife with only a two bedroom home and already had one wife and 5 kids and had all the children taken away because of the lack of space. I am not a conformist but I also love my children and dont want the state raising my children. So yes I do think you need to be in an ok enough situation before taking in a second wife. Cause even if you all work it will take some time to get out of one situation and into a better one. More so when the kids come along with mom from day one. I would assume if it is a woman with no kids then that isn't as much of a problem. How ever when you already have children and she does too you really need to consider if you can really take care of them financially. Livin on love is nice but love doesn't feed screaming hungry children. Love also won't stop the state from taking all the children from the home. Not tryn to start nothing just talking reality of things.
 
I couldn't agree more, Gill. Cindy came to me alone. Long story, not her fault, and the way she was raised she didn't know what to get her kids back. But my confidence is this: God took us from where we were, in that 32' trailer, to here, with custody of all 4 kids (though two have since passed 18) in a 5 bedroom house. We're still struggling financially at present, but we're fed, housed, clothed, transported, educating, somewhat entertained, warm, and definitely thankful.

So here's the funny thing: I don't particularly advocate courting a second wife anyway. Period. My belief, based on watching this all go on for 12 years, is that the best idea is to make lots of friends, and let God knit hearts as He wills. I suspect that's best no matter where you're at financially.

However, for the purposes of THIS thread's topic, I also advocate NOT locking the door due to finances. Our God can change the financial situation in the blink of an eye.

Admittedly, appropriate provision must be made for kids. And 5 kids in a 2 bed house? That needed to be worked on already, with both sweat and prayer. Long before an additional wife was considered. Admitting I don't know the details ...

Still, I never want to underestimate or restrict God or His working in my life.
 
Well said, Cecil, and that is not only a wonderful testimony, but an affirmation of understanding as well.

Both times that my wife B "left" and abandoned our marriage, it was shortly after I had been laid off -- even though, in both cases, the corporate situation had been obvious for quite some time, and we were as well-prepared for the inevitable as possible. In both cases as well, God's provision was also evident. I continue to pray that she will have witness after witness to confirm that her abandonment of Covenant was wrong; certainly the economic impacts by now are undeniable to all of us.

But fear is corrosive, and so is the attitude of the 'world'. And that is not an excuse for the failure, just a warning to others that the Adversary comes but to kill and destroy. Yield him no ground, and remember that those YHVH "loves, He chastens".

So, while I would certainly agree that a decision to seek ANY wife should be made prayerfully, and with the intent to ensure provision, I'd have to agree that such considerations cannot be primary. All such blessing is ultimately from God regardless. And if His provision of a wife seems "early", on the other hand, I'd try to listen carefully...

Blessings,
Mark


PS> "Courting" is an interesting word in any event. Sometimes we might be - and just have no clue at the time. ;)
 
Mark C said:
PS> "Courting" is an interesting word in any event. Sometimes we might be - and just have no clue at the time. ;)
Click to expand...

Agreed. I suspect that most times when relating to an unattached female, there is a subtext of courtship, no matter how deeply submerged. Thus the frequent excuse regarding affairs that "We weren't PLANNING it -- it just HAPPENED!" We polygamists are just more open/aware/honest about it. Accepting, too.
 
Please Delete
 
It's like a shirt I seen only we can call each other cracker? IDK if you are out west just be sure to be careful saying that word cause I have seen it cause fights. I am native,white and Pacific Islander. The native part in alaska is Inupiaq. We call each other a dumb eskimo when we are mad but don't let no one else call us an eskimo,lol. The sad part is most people out side of Alaska don't know any better. But calling some one a plig by a Polygynist in most peoples eyes is the same as a person of color calling calling each other the N word. Just thought I'd break it down. More people will fight over it cause there kids get called pligs while rock are getting thrown at them.
 
this is turning into a great discussion with some thought provoking posts by you guys.
cece;
we really do not disagree. i very much enjoyed your story (read with popcorn, btw :) ) let me point out a couple of things. first of all, as i understand it, your first wife had left the scene by the time that this story started and you were living as a single person when you brought cindy in to share your life. you were not "on the prowl" looking for someone but another person told you of a woman in need and you offered to share with her what you had.
second, you are not making any attempts to find more families to share your somewhat limited resources, but if you met someone truly in need you would consider bringing them in.
this is all that i am saying, i never said that i will not explore a relationship and marry another wife when i cannot afford to guarantee her needs. i just will not proactively look for one until i feel we can supply her needs adequately.
what i am talking about is responsibility. gill showed that responsibility when he chose to move from his cloth cave into a more approved residence when he decided that he wanted to marry. all of the sudden it was no longer about him alone and he adjusted accordingly and responsibly. too many people nowadays are not taught much about responsibility. they just fall in love and then proceed to have children with very few assets or skills to provide for them. many times the state becomes their provider (which makes the state the de facto husband).
i see some of this happening in some pm situations. looking for girls to fall in love with while not having the ability to support them. he marries them and then hangs a "For Hire" sign around their neck so that they can "pull their weight". it really becomes a matter of them "paying for themselves" or "providing for their own keep".

when i was single i chose to not date anyone that i knew i would not want to marry. i feel that the decision saved a lot of heartache. so, i feel, does my choice to not "play the field" when i am not able to fully support them now.

let me clarify again that i expect each member of the fam to be productive and contribute to the overall well being of their fellow members, but that the financial support should not have to depend on them.

i realized today that we may only be disagreeing on the definition of the word "courting". to me that includes being on the lookout for and approaching illegible females with the intention to promote a marriage.
 
off topic deletion
 
Well said, Steve. Both posts.
 
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