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When is a marriage a 'Marriage'?
- Thread starter Doc
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A
Anonymous
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Assuming they have committed to marriage verbally, they are "married" at the moment they come together in sexual union. Whereas in Biblical days, there was generally an extended period between betrothal (commitment) and marriage (intercourse), we usually see both on the very same day in our culture.docburkhart said:
However, sexual union WITHOUT a prior commitment does not make anyone married. That's simply whoring. First commitment, then intercourse.
All of this assumes God permits the marriage in the first place.
Love in Him,
David
sixth_heretic
Member
Matt.19
[5] And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
[6] Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
1Cor.6
[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Where in scripture does it say you need a validating commitment. Sex is marriage. otherwise We could sleep with whomever we wanted as long as we didnt commit.
[5] And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
[6] Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
1Cor.6
[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Where in scripture does it say you need a validating commitment. Sex is marriage. otherwise We could sleep with whomever we wanted as long as we didnt commit.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Sixth,sixth_heretic said:
The term "one flesh", in the physical sense, is sexual intercourse, not marriage. They cannot be synonymous or we'd have a series of conflicts throughout Scripture. All whores would be guilty of adultery and sentenced to death after sleeping with their second "husband". All men laying with whores would likewise be guilty of adultery and sentenced to death. Yet we see numerous men employing the services of whores in Scripture, none of which are condemned of anything even remotely along the lines of adultery (which requires a MARRIED WOMAN). The whole point of harlotry is to enjoy the pleasures of sexual intercourse WITHOUT the prerequisite covenantal commitment. Such women are foolish but not adulteresses.
Whoring is discouraged throughout Scripture but, if I recall correctly, never outright condemned until the NT. In the OT, only the daughter of a priest was to be killed for whoring, as well as a supposed virgin living in her father's house and pretending to remain virgin when marrying. God said whoring would increase evil in the land, but did not make a specific penalty against it for the general population, as He did with adultery.
Even Jesus agreed with the woman at the well that the man she now had was not her husband, despite the fact she previously had five husbands. Simply having sex doesn't make you married, any more than getting baptized makes you a Christian. There is a prior commitment understanding required and the physical act is an affirmation of the fact. That was why a betrothed woman was to be stoned for adultery if she lay with another man, even though he was her first and only sexual partner. The agreement to betrothal made her "married" even though she never had laid with her "husband" yet.
I can show numerous verses where sex did not make anyone married; where a marriage was sought after the fact. Yet I agree with the verses you gave that a man visiting a whore becomes "one flesh" with her. That's the whole point. It is a physical, sexual act, not a covenantal agreement. Do you know of any verses stating otherwise that I'm missing?
Love in Him,
David
docburkhart said:
Hello,
I understand marriage to be more than an agreed upon living arrangement, and it is a great deal more than intercourse. I see it as a sacred Biblical covenant, to include all aspects normative in a covenant.
1. Initiator
2. Two or more parties
3. Reasons for the covenant
4. Witness and sign of the covenant
5. Shedding of blood
6. Promise of the covenant
7. Length of the covenant
8. Covenant meal/Name change
If you look carefully at all the Covenants in the Bible, these things will be consistent, with very little exceptions - especially the major covenants. Since I have a high view of marriage, I will always encourage these things to take place.
1. Initiator: Man
2. Two or more parties: Man can have a covenant relationship with more than one woman
3. Reasons for the covenant: To establish Biblical marital roles and responsibilities
4. Witness and sign of the covenant: Two or more witnesses of the covenant. "by the mouth of two or three"... (Should be noted that ancient Hebrew records confirm witnesses for these covenants)
5. Shedding of blood: God gave the woman a hymen that was designed to be broken in the first act of intercourse. In the breaking of the hymen there is the shedding of blood. Thus the Lord built into marriage the blood covenant.
6. Promise of the covenant: Vows
7. Length of the covenant: Life
8. Covenant meal/Name change
It should be noted that no Rabbi, Pastor or Priest is required to be performing of any ceremony. Although there was a long Betrothal period, I cannot find this encouraged in the Scriptures. The Betrothal actually was the beginning of the witnessed "covenant", but the "shedding of blood" did not take place until the actual wedding (covenant) meal.
sixth_heretic
Member
Actually getting married doesnt make you one flesh just like baptizum doesnt make you a christain.
Having sex makes you one flesh just like believeing that jesus died for our sins makes us christain.
It appears from the following scriptures that God considers the commitment of betrothal, (or engagement to be married) just as indicative of marriage as the act of intercourse. In the Old Testament Israel, if a man forcibly had intercourse with a virgin and they were found out, then he had to keep her as his wife and pay her father money. However, I find it interesting that it says ‘if they are found out’. What then if they were not discovered. Also of note is that, as djanakes mentioned, feigning virginity and getting married or having sex outside of marriage while still living with her father was deserving of death for a woman in Israel.
Deuteronomy 22:13-30 -
13“If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14“and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ 15“then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16“And the young woman’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 17‘Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, “I found your daughter was not a virgin,” and yet these are the evidences of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18“Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; 19“and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20“But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, 21“then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father’s house. So you shall put away the evil from among you.
22“If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel.
23“If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24“then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor’s wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you.
25“But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26“But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. 27“For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman cried out, but there was no one to save her.
28“If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29“then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.
30“A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor uncover his father’s bed.
Here is a scripture which we are all aware of in which Joseph is betrothed to Mary, but they have not had intercourse, (indeed they did not have intercourse until after Jesus was born) but it says that they are husband and wife.
Matthew 1:18-25 -
18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21“And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins.” 22So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.” 24Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.
Just as in secular law a verbal contract is binding, I believe that if two people enter into a verbal contract before God and agree that they are married, then He will honor that as a marriage whether or not they have intercourse.
Intercourse is symbolic of Christ coming for His church. That is why it is so sacred and to be confined to marriage. This is also why the devil so wants to pervert it. However, we are already ‘joined’ to Jesus in Spirit and are already members of His body through our verbal ‘commitment’ as evidenced by our lifestyle of coming out of the world, even though the Head, (Jesus) has not yet come to be physically ‘joined’ with the body/bride, (Ephesians chapters 4-5). If we partake in the ways of the world, especially become too interested in material things and money, then God considers that adultery, (James 4:1-5). If we come out of the world, then we become like spiritual virgins. Though we are only 'betrothed' to Jesus, God still considers us married to Him, (II Corinthians 11:2).
II Corinthians 11:1-5 -
1Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. 2For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
When Jesus comes back and we are physically 'joined' to Him there will be a wedding feast and we will actually ‘consummate’ the marriage. However, even though we are now only ‘betrothed’ to Jesus, God considers us to be 'married', just like Jesus said that He had ‘finished’ the work that God had sent Him here to do, even before He went to the cross, (John 17:4). He was speaking by the Spirit those things that were not yet in the natural. It is the intent or the 'spirit' of the law, (i.e., the actions that result from the attitude) that matters most to God, not the letter. That is why Jesus said, (in what I call the path to perfection - Matthew chapters 5-7) that one can commit adultery in the heart.
Matthew 5:27-28 -
27“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28“But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
Marriage is a heart issue as well. Intercourse is a symbolic physical act to confirm the heart intent of unity, (both between human and human and God and humans). As such, I believe intercourse, (especially with Christians) is neither necessary nor sufficient to confirm marriage, depending on the case.
Be blessed,
Dr. Ray
Deuteronomy 22:13-30 -
13“If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14“and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ 15“then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16“And the young woman’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 17‘Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, “I found your daughter was not a virgin,” and yet these are the evidences of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18“Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; 19“and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20“But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, 21“then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father’s house. So you shall put away the evil from among you.
22“If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel.
23“If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24“then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor’s wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you.
25“But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26“But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. 27“For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman cried out, but there was no one to save her.
28“If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29“then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.
30“A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor uncover his father’s bed.
Here is a scripture which we are all aware of in which Joseph is betrothed to Mary, but they have not had intercourse, (indeed they did not have intercourse until after Jesus was born) but it says that they are husband and wife.
Matthew 1:18-25 -
18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21“And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins.” 22So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.” 24Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.
Just as in secular law a verbal contract is binding, I believe that if two people enter into a verbal contract before God and agree that they are married, then He will honor that as a marriage whether or not they have intercourse.
Intercourse is symbolic of Christ coming for His church. That is why it is so sacred and to be confined to marriage. This is also why the devil so wants to pervert it. However, we are already ‘joined’ to Jesus in Spirit and are already members of His body through our verbal ‘commitment’ as evidenced by our lifestyle of coming out of the world, even though the Head, (Jesus) has not yet come to be physically ‘joined’ with the body/bride, (Ephesians chapters 4-5). If we partake in the ways of the world, especially become too interested in material things and money, then God considers that adultery, (James 4:1-5). If we come out of the world, then we become like spiritual virgins. Though we are only 'betrothed' to Jesus, God still considers us married to Him, (II Corinthians 11:2).
II Corinthians 11:1-5 -
1Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. 2For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
When Jesus comes back and we are physically 'joined' to Him there will be a wedding feast and we will actually ‘consummate’ the marriage. However, even though we are now only ‘betrothed’ to Jesus, God considers us to be 'married', just like Jesus said that He had ‘finished’ the work that God had sent Him here to do, even before He went to the cross, (John 17:4). He was speaking by the Spirit those things that were not yet in the natural. It is the intent or the 'spirit' of the law, (i.e., the actions that result from the attitude) that matters most to God, not the letter. That is why Jesus said, (in what I call the path to perfection - Matthew chapters 5-7) that one can commit adultery in the heart.
Matthew 5:27-28 -
27“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28“But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
Marriage is a heart issue as well. Intercourse is a symbolic physical act to confirm the heart intent of unity, (both between human and human and God and humans). As such, I believe intercourse, (especially with Christians) is neither necessary nor sufficient to confirm marriage, depending on the case.
Be blessed,
Dr. Ray
A
Anonymous
Guest
Yep, that lines up with the whole of Scripture. That's a solid definition.docburkhart said:
Love in Him,
David
docburkhart said:
I would like to suggest a little change:
Marriage is a covenantal agreement between one man and one or more women that takes place before God, witnesses, which is consumated by the act of intercourse, (resulting in a permanent change of relationship symbolized by name change)... I only mention what is within the paranthesis because the majority of Biblical Covenants involved a name change. I haven't had time to look into any ancient marriage covenants to see if this was practiced in ancient Israel (B.C.). Perhaps the covenant meal was all that was needed. If anyone has the time to research this and get back with us, I think it would help us define this a little clearer from a more Biblical perspective. Because of where I am right now, I do not have the time to accomplish this goal myself.
Interesting point. To me the name change, just like intercourse, is a confirmation of the marriage contract. I would think that it too is a part of the whole deal, so I believe you are correct that the name change symbolizing the change in the relationship from one of being separate of one of unity should be part of the definition as well. Among others, here are a couple of scriptures to support the concept.
Isaiah 62:1-5 -
1 For Zion’s sake I will not hold My peace,
And for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest,
Until her righteousness goes forth as brightness,
And her salvation as a lamp that burns.
2 The Gentiles shall see your righteousness,
And all kings your glory.
You shall be called by a new name,
Which the mouth of the Lord will name.
3 You shall also be a crown of glory
In the hand of the Lord,
And a royal diadem
In the hand of your God.
4 You shall no longer be termed Forsaken,
Nor shall your land any more be termed Desolate;
But you shall be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah;
For the Lord delights in you,
And your land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marries a virgin,
So shall your sons marry you;
And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride,
So shall your God rejoice over you.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
Revelation 3:12 - (speaking of the Philadelphia church)
12“He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
Revelation 14:1-5 - (which I believe is also the Philadelphia church)
1Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
I believe that the latter two scriptures signify those people who have truly given up their way of life to receive and live IN Christ. They have reached perfection, (or maturity) IN Him. This is what I call the 'life in Christ'. It is completely abiding in Him. These people, (I.e., the 'Philadelphia church') set the Christian standard for all of God's people and Jesus will make them pillars in the church. They well deserve to have the name of God, just as we would be happy for a faithful wife to have our name.
Excellent topic! I learned something new. Thank you.
Be blessed,
Dr. Ray
Isaiah 62:1-5 -
1 For Zion’s sake I will not hold My peace,
And for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest,
Until her righteousness goes forth as brightness,
And her salvation as a lamp that burns.
2 The Gentiles shall see your righteousness,
And all kings your glory.
You shall be called by a new name,
Which the mouth of the Lord will name.
3 You shall also be a crown of glory
In the hand of the Lord,
And a royal diadem
In the hand of your God.
4 You shall no longer be termed Forsaken,
Nor shall your land any more be termed Desolate;
But you shall be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah;
For the Lord delights in you,
And your land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marries a virgin,
So shall your sons marry you;
And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride,
So shall your God rejoice over you.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
Revelation 3:12 - (speaking of the Philadelphia church)
12“He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
Revelation 14:1-5 - (which I believe is also the Philadelphia church)
1Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
I believe that the latter two scriptures signify those people who have truly given up their way of life to receive and live IN Christ. They have reached perfection, (or maturity) IN Him. This is what I call the 'life in Christ'. It is completely abiding in Him. These people, (I.e., the 'Philadelphia church') set the Christian standard for all of God's people and Jesus will make them pillars in the church. They well deserve to have the name of God, just as we would be happy for a faithful wife to have our name.
Excellent topic! I learned something new. Thank you.
Be blessed,
Dr. Ray
Okay, so let me do a bit of editing, and tell me what you think.
"Marriage is a verbal and spiritual covenant between a man and his wife before God and witnesses, consummated by the act of intercourse, with the intent and purpose of establishing a family. This covenant will be evidenced through the ongoing outward identification of the man and his wife as belonging to one another, such as through name change, exchange of dowry or rings, public proclamation, and the common care of children."
Pastor Randy-the only reason that I use the term "a man and his wife" is that this would be a definiton that both those within and without the plural marriage community could say, "sure I agree with that". A man will make a individual covenant with each 'wife', so the definition would still apply without offending those who may not agree with plural marriage. It also has the benefit of example from Genesis 3 "a man shall cleave to his wife".
In His Grip,
"Marriage is a verbal and spiritual covenant between a man and his wife before God and witnesses, consummated by the act of intercourse, with the intent and purpose of establishing a family. This covenant will be evidenced through the ongoing outward identification of the man and his wife as belonging to one another, such as through name change, exchange of dowry or rings, public proclamation, and the common care of children."
Pastor Randy-the only reason that I use the term "a man and his wife" is that this would be a definiton that both those within and without the plural marriage community could say, "sure I agree with that". A man will make a individual covenant with each 'wife', so the definition would still apply without offending those who may not agree with plural marriage. It also has the benefit of example from Genesis 3 "a man shall cleave to his wife".
In His Grip,
rusty_armor
New Member
docburkhart said:
Which leads me to ponder: If the groom or bride is unable to perform sexually because of age, injury or impotency, and the spouse to be was aware of the condition prior to the marriage, would they still be married in the eyes of G-d even thought the consummation requirement was not performed?