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When courting.... What are the boundaries?

ADHERE

ADHERE

Member
Of course this process of courting is new to me. I was courting a young lady and it did not work out. She had reached out again to me. My wife and I thought things were back in line with this lady, but it wasn't. I made a few attempts to contact her after she contacted me. She just made no attempt to contact me after I left a few messages for her. So... I have deemed it over, and not worth my time. Here is my question?

What boundaries are set when you begin to court a lady?

When The lady and I begin to court I asked that Sex not be a topic of conversation, and she agreed. My personal belief is that when sex is a topic of conversation in the beginning of the courting, the first thing that happens is... It make the courting move to swiftly, without getting to know who your courting.

Second, there should be trust between husband and his first wife or wives he already have, while courting the new potential. Of course we know that within marriage, sex is a part of the intimacy bonding. But... Are we suppose to try her out to see if the intimacy is compatible?
As born again believers, I believe that even in polygyny we should still respond to relationships according to the bible.


What are the guide lines for dating? Should your first wife or wives have a say in that process?

Should he be alone with the potential, while dating?

Is the mentality of the potential, I'm marrying him? So She don't have to get to know the wife or wives?

I have other question, but, these are some of the things that have come up, and I have my own view of how these things should be handled.


What are your thoughts and input?

Looking forward to your responses...


Silas
 
Hi Silas, Please look over the Active topic "Jennies list of questions". Print them, edit them to fit your families concept of what a plural family should be, and spend a lot of time at the kitchen table discussing them with your current wife (wives?). The new woman will be first and formost your wife, but for the sake of everyones future happiness, and a peaceful home, a high level of agreement within your current family on the answers to these questions will help everyone move toward the same goal. Then share these questions and answers with anyone you value highly enough to consider a life partner and an enhancement to the family you have already established. Maybe not right after the "hi, how are you point" but certainly by the time you have advanced into the courting stage. Be truthful about your plans, actions and expectations, with everyone involved, but mostly with yourself. If your new gal can't accept and honor your values, and share your life plan for her and everyone concerned, it is better to know that right away. If there are conflicts later, make very sure they are not the result of misunderstandings at the beginning. If your goal is family building, then keep that formost in your heart as you grow that family into the vision of love that God has for all of you.
 
Do you have a daughter? If not, imagine you do.

Now imagine a man came to you and said "I would like to court your daughter. What are the boundaries? Can I have sex with her to try her out?"

What would your answer be?

That's your boundary.

That's doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. And if the answer is something like "I'd punch him in the face for even suggesting sleeping with her without commiting to marriage first" then you probably need to reexamine your thinking rather fundamentally.
 
I think boundaries in courting a potential are very important, just like they are in practically everything else in life. The question seems a bit hard to answer though because my definition of a good boundary might not be yours. As Tndreamergal said take those questions and fit them to your vision of your family and how you believe it should work. If anything a list of questions gets you out of emotional talk to practical getting to know you talk.

I would like to give you some personal suggestions that I believe are good from my own experience and knowing others. I personally have been shocked at the number of families that invite a potential to visit in person for the first time (she is usually from another state) and then have her end up living with them and getting married within a few weeks. I have never known these marriages to last more than a year, if that long. Granted I don’t know about all families and their dealings but I still find this a grave lack of wisdom on the family’s side and the single ladies side. What kind of woman would leave her “life” so quickly and easily? It just throws up red flags in my opinion. I fear the “need” to be loved and taken care of ends up overshadowing simple logic about the family to be. How can a family spend such little time in the presence of a person and decide she is the perfect fit for them? People visiting in your home are always on their best behavior. It is only after lots of time spent with them does one really understand how everyday life is lived by someone. That might involve going back and forth between states for a while, or longer visits as time goes by if possible or even someone relocating to pursue this relationship. A new relationship is always fun and exciting but major decisions can’t be made until that has past and a more normal relationship has evolved. I also believe that the single lady needs to have her own place to go back to during this courting stage. She needs to be able to think in a place she feels safe from any pressure the man or family might put on her. And the same for the family, they need to have time away from her to work out any misunderstandings or concerns regarding the new relationship. I do understand that financially this is not always possible but I still think that boundaries can be put in place that give a good amount of separate time for each in the beginning. “Playing house” is so fun but when reality comes after covenant and the proper amount of communication, prayer and common sense thinking about things hasn’t happened then it makes a big adjustment even harder.

My other suggestion would be about ‘the list’. Spending time talking about important things altogether and just man and single lady is very important. It is so easy to talk about the surface things but not spend enough time talking about deeper issues. Also, going over things in different ways makes sure you are not mis-communicating or have different understandings of certain words. Be clear on your expectations, on your solid commitment and your vision of how you think the family should be. This doesn't mean you should all think the same way (never will happen anyways) but that you are all clear on the differences of thought and you are all willing to be flexible within them. There is nothing wrong in changing how you do things as a family or person, change and growth are good. It doesn't mean it won’t be work but that over all it should be a good thing to everyone, families should be blessed with any addition to it.

I must say that in a perfect world there would be a list to check off and things would be perfect from that point. But as we all know this world is not perfect so we do the very best we can. God moves slowly at times and quickly at others. So, each family and single lady must have conviction and time spent in prayer above all else before venturing into marriage. It is a lifelong decision, is it not worth our best effort to make it a good one?

One last thought, I also agree with abstinence before marriage. I think a man showing his commitment in this regard can be an example of his strength to a lady. If the lady can't wait, then that might be a sign of something else going on that needs to be talked about.

I wish you well in your journey. With hope for the future....
 
Note that my point about what you believe would be ok for your daughter was a general principle that goes way beyond sex. As Julie has said, there will be differences between the appropriate boundary for one person and another in different areas. Thinking about what you would accept for a daughter will help you understand what boundaries are appropriate for you in any area.
 
I do appreciate all of the input and words of wisdom in your responses. Tndreamergal, FollowingHim, and Julieb.... Your responses have really given me much to pray about and think about. I do know that I have a set of core values that I live by. In your twenties, you think one way... In your thirties, your thinking shifts again. I'm in my late forties and personally I have low tolerance for foolishness, deceit, and the list goes on. In this juncture of my life, I enjoy the harmony that is present in my family. I did go over the list, and it was loaded with great questions.

Thank you all again for your enlightening comments....

Silas
 
Advice given above is worth a second read, good stuff!

I believe the first boundary should be that a friendship has been established prior to courting. If I were to be willing to court a woman based on their self description or even that of mutual friends I'd lose count of the potentials. We ought to have seen one another through the ups and downs of life and known more about one another from experience than from self proclamations or second hand chat.

What I consider courtship, many seem to refer to as engagement. Perhaps it is a variance in terminology or intentions, so to clarify my concept of courtship: I believe you to be a righteous woman, an excellent friend, our relationship directs one another to the Creator, we are a blessing to one another as well as my immediate family members, seeing the potential we are investing time only to one another in terms of a potential marriage, and it is done with declaration. Expect to meet my family, as well as many friends, and be introduced with an emphasis on our relationship.

Should each of us be blessed with the desire and personal confirmation to proceed with marriage, then there would be an engagement. When engaged, we should already be certain. Now is the time to plan and implement changes to prepare for any logistical aspects such as wedding ceremonies, housing, and employment if applicable. We have three children in the family now. During the engagement period, relationship should be steadily built between them and my fiancee as well as any children she has. Though they will have already met, it is only now that I would encourage the relationship.
 
Well I know I'm a little late but before we made the decision to pursue this my husband and I decided that all conversations are shared with all parties involved. We also have a program that all text messages between my husband and a potiential are forwarded to my phone so no temptation of any kind can be a stumbling block. We have made some rules ahead of meeting potientials. We like Julieb mentioned will have non-local girls come out a number of times with her having her own space to reflect. We don't want a single woman ever feeling pressured to be with us.EWe also want to make sure our belief system lines up and that we are not allowing our children to get close to someone that will leave after they have formed attachments. We want all parties protected as much as possible.
 
Emily, I'm really not sure where to begin on that. I'm going to have a guess at where your mind is at right now, sorry if I seem too presumptive...

You've come to realise that polygamy is acceptable. But you're still not particularly comfortable with the idea emotionally. You're not sure about sharing your husband with anyone. So, if it's going to happen, you want to be sure you're fully involved to make sure it's right. You want to be fully involved in this decision.

But when you were dating Bryan, would you have been comfortable if he was sharing every conversation with you with someone else, for instance his mother? How do you think your relationship would have worked? How many problems could have been caused by that? How many arguments would have been started or made worse by that? Would you even be married today?

If Bryan is to marry another wife, she will be marrying him. She won't be marrying the two of you, she'll be marrying Bryan. They will have their own individual relationship. As they get to know each other they will discuss private matters that she would not want shared with you - as you will have private matters you would not want to share with her.

If it's going to work, at the end of the day, you're going to have to trust Bryan to be able to do the right thing himself without you being his chaperone. Take your time. Don't pursue this until you trust him enough for that.

Bryan's obviously agreed to this plan, and probably thinks it's the best idea. I'm not saying this is all about you controlling him, I think the two of you just haven't thought this through very far yet. But that's ok, everybody starts with having not thought polygamy through at all, ever, and works up from there! It's great that you've thought through it this far! Hope I've been able to give you a few more things to ponder for the next stage of your thinking.
 
Actually,

Our parents were involved in the courtship process and had access to our text messages, emails etc. and we never had a date that wasn't supervised. We both grew up in independent Baptist households ie like the Duggars. So.... for us It's not a control thing. We feel it safe guards our marriage and also for us it goes back to Song of Solomon and making sure that things aren't being awakened before It's time for them to be awakened.

I do appreciate input. My husband completely trusts me in every way as I do him. I know it might sound trite but I feel that safe guarding my husband, home and children are vital and there are too many flakes out there to not be cautious with who my husband is building relationships with as not all single women have pure intentions.

My husband has said that If we aren't 100% on the same page for a potiential then there needs to be discussion as to what we are not in agreement on because he will not sacrifice the family we have for something that is uncertain. We have made the agreement that he doesn't just take another wife because he feels like it.

I know this may not be the normal for everyone but it works very well for us
 
Now I get where you're coming from - what seems strange to me feels normal to you. And there is no one right or wrong answer entirely. However you do need to consider a few things here:

Those rules are generally set for teenagers / young adults, by adult family members, to ensure the young person has adult guidance. But you're adults now. So is it appropriate to apply the same rules?

Are you (Emily) the right person for Bryan to be accountable to? Or if he is to be accountable, should it be to a Christian brother (e.g. someone he regards as an elder)? I say this for a number of reasons:
- She will have opinions about you that she wishes to express (just as you'll have opinions about her), and she may not feel free to express these if she knows you'll hear everything she says. So she may feel she has to hide some things for fear of upsetting you. This could mean that Bryan ended up marrying a woman who actually couldn't stand some things about you but had never been free to say so, with this all coming to light in a fight sometime after their wedding...
- Also means Bryan will be hearing negative things about her from you, but few negative things about you from her, so may get a distorted view of the two of you, your opinions, how you'd work in a home, who needs to change where to accommodate the other... Lots of little distortions with potentially large eventual consequences.
- You're a central character in this and are heavily emotionally involved, you may not be able to give independent accountability in the way a parent can.
- Scripturally Bryan is in authority over you, but accountability means you are subject to the person you are accountable to (at least in that specific matter). A Christian man is to be subject to elders, but not subject to his wife. It gets very confusing from an authority and accountability perspective and could disrupt the relationship you already have.

Does she know you're party to every conversation? What is her opinion on that? Is she comfortable with it? Is she REALLY comfortable with it or does she just say so because she knows you'll hear what she says...?

I have got absolutely no problem with accountability. It's a great idea. But you should be accountable to an authority figure (e.g. a parent such as when you were courting) or an emotionally detached peer. I don't believe a wife is the right person to be accountable to. I can see it causing far too many problems. It just gets too messy. You'll have enough to come to grips with yourself in this entirely new venture without also attempting to be Bryan's accountability partner. Accountability to a Christian brother could however work very well and would replicate far more accurately the conditions you courted under.
 
BandEStensaas said:
Actually,

Our parents were involved in the courtship process and had access to our text messages, emails etc. and we never had a date that wasn't supervised. We both grew up in independent Baptist households ie like the Duggars. So.... for us It's not a control thing. We feel it safe guards our marriage and also for us it goes back to Song of Solomon and making sure that things aren't being awakened before It's time for them to be awakened.

I do appreciate input. My husband completely trusts me in every way as I do him. I know it might sound trite but I feel that safe guarding my husband, home and children are vital and there are too many flakes out there to not be cautious with who my husband is building relationships with as not all single women have pure intentions.

My husband has said that If we aren't 100% on the same page for a potiential then there needs to be discussion as to what we are not in agreement on because he will not sacrifice the family we have for something that is uncertain. We have made the agreement that he doesn't just take another wife because he feels like it.

I know this may not be the normal for everyone but it works very well for us
Click to expand...

I would say, it's your life, you make the rules.

Since this seems to be all new, maybe the idea chaperoning the first few young ladies wouldn't be a bad idea for you. One of the things you may be trying to do is get comfortable with how your husband is going to handle this new thing. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem in my wife knowing the details in the beginning relationships so that she would feel comfortable. Which is exactly what happened. When she got to the place she felt comfortable she felt at ease and now days she trusts me and she is not all that interested in the details of the beginning period of getting to know someone. When things do get serious, she trusts me more now in this process that I will give her the information she needs before any decisions are made . Part of the respect I earned when it comes to how I will handle another women in our home. But, we started out sharing everything at the beginning, just like you are talking about. This is a long process and it is going to take some time and if you let God work, He is going to change both of you before it is over. If anything it can help build your current relationship stronger through the trust you each learn at each step. At this point your current relationship is the most important. The other thing is, I am not in a plural marriage, so my family is just like yours, in that we are in the searching stage too. Taking advice from someone who is not in a plural marriage is just speculation anyway. Hopefully, you have had the chance to talk to families who are actually in a plural marriage to get a better picture of what really works and doesn't.
 
I think FH brings up some really good points. If all involved like the accountability, which I can understand, then some form of neutral 3rd party elder type does seem llike a really good idea. I also was not 100% clear on if she knows that the conversations are being monitored. If not, that revelation needs to happen quickly and carefully. She could really feel betrayed if that's not something she knew from the outset.
 
I agree FH has some good points, however practically in today's poly world, finding elders, or even family members to accept the pursued PM lifestyle in the form of being a chaperon, or anything else for that matter, is a stretch. At this point those of us in the poly world are basically in uncharted waters. Trusting God is pretty much the foundation we have to rely on. God does speak to those who listen and each relationship formation is unique in its creation and not something others can make hard rules that need to be followed, when it comes to things of life and there is no hard commandment against it. In a relationship based on love, authority and accountability are best used within the framework of grace.
 
I agree with FH. He did bring up some good points and we had a very long talk with all parties present last night because I had been thinking and praying about what you all had to say and I agreed no more text and emails come to me because they need to be able to bond and we have set up some time for just her and I as well.
 
I really like that you're setting up the time for you and her. That is a key relationship as well! I wouldn't want to pursue a relationship with a woman my wife just tolerated. Perfect world the wives are besties, but at least friends!
 
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