From Episode 28 of 20 Questions with Pastor Mike
All right so let's dig on let's keep going, Joshua Bambrick, question 10 says:
It's often said that God does not affirm polygamy in the old testament, but 2 Samuel 12:8 seems to refute that. I already know what verse you're thinking of; Why would God give multiple wives to David if he opposes polygamy?
okay so let's go to Samuel 12:8.
This is probably the strongest passage in the bible for those who want to suggest the bible supports polygamy.
I’m going to suggest they're drawing too much from the passage but let's read through here and let's feel that difficulty of the passage provides.
So this is when David is being rebuked because he remembers this story with Bathsheba.
He's got multiple wives already.
David does.
Now he also, um...
Sorry, I’m collecting my thoughts and my answers for you as I’m talking.
You ever do that you're thinking while you're talking
So he has multiple wives.
He also then goes on to sleep with Bathsheba; Another man's wife.
horrible sin they commit adultery together
Then, to cover it up he arranges for her husband Uriah to be killed.
So this is murder. Okay, this is murder. He just made Joab do it; made somebody else
do it, but this is murder.
Then Nathan comes and tells him a story that exposes to David how wicked he is and he tells him a story about a man who had all these sheep and he went and stole his neighbor's only sheep that he loved and he killed it. So he could cook it and feed it to his guests and David gets infuriated and
he's like that guy's gonna die. I can't believe he had all these sheep and he did that and then Nathan turns to him and he says you think the guy should die? He says to David, You are the man! David, you're the guy. You're the man who took the man who only had one wife you're the man thus says the lord
the god of Israel. I anointed you king over Israel and I delivered you out of the hand of Saul
and gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah.
um now we know we, we have no record ...let me I’m just gonna start unpacking the answer to your questions here
We have no record of David sleeping with Saul's wives. This is very possibly a phrase that just
means that they were in his care. The reason why that's important is that in their culture when one person took over the kingdom of another person they would often try to still keep the wives of that king in the home or in the castle or in the proximity of the original guy. It gave more credibility to his rulership. Okay, so so there's no record of David having done anything with them that we should
just acknowledge. Now you could try to read it into it if you want, but you're
reading, you're adding stuff into it.
Then, he says,... and if this were too little I would add to you as much more. He would add more and here's where the challenge is going to come. Why have you despised the word of the lord to do what
is evil in his sight? You've struck down Uriah the Hittite with a sword and have taken his wife to be your wife and have killed him with the sword of the ammonites.
Now in pagan cultures, I think that the king would be able to do that but not in god's mind, okay. So now, Therefore the sword shall never depart from your house because you have despised me and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife, thus says the Lord behold I will raise up evil against you out of your own house and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor and he and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of the sun.
This is not okay. This is what's going to happen. It's a consequence. It is not something that God's like, I
love when this happens. This happens frequently with judgment in the old testament where. God says …
Like, in fact, I had someone tell me the bible teaches cannibalism and it's because in
scripture god tells the people if you don't turn to me, you will starve and you'll be eating
each other. Like this is the consequence of your sin. You'll have famine. You'll be a siege around you and sieges they would just wait you out. You'll run out of food you'll be eating each other, and this person quoted this as if this judgment was something that God likes or wants. Right, this is not something God...It's not. It's not, god's approval on these things obviously.
For you, you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel and before the sun. David said to Nathan, I’ve sinned against the Lord, and Nathan said to David, the Lord has also put away your sin you shall not die.
So, the specific verse that the question arises from...
Let me find your question again here. It's Joshua. It's from verse 8. You said
and this is this thing. I think I highlighted it when I went through it.
I would add to you as much more.
The idea is... Look, you've got all these things. I would have given you much more.
Is god suggesting he would have given David more wives?
That God would have just provided (David) with more wives?
Or, is this a way of God's, and I’m going to argue to this, that it's a way of God simply saying
I could I would have given you so many more things without you stealing and taking and killing.
But is God actually suggesting wives?
I think the answer is probably no, and I'm going to support that. I can understand how somebody would
think that is in this passage but I'm going to support this here with the rest of what God says about kings and wives in deuteronomy 17:17. It says about kings, he shall not acquire many wives for
himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excess silver and gold.
So God specifically forbids the idea of kings acquiring lots of wives.
I think (the) New King James puts multiple wives. You can't get a bunch of wives. Kings you're not allowed to do this. It's a normal thing. It's what kings always did.
So what is God saying to David here?
I think he's basically saying, David, whatever you want(ed), I could have been the source for you of
godly things and good things in good ways.
I do think it's worded strangely. I admit that, but I think if we look at consistency with other places like
Deuteronomy 17:17. Then we see that this is not God going, oh, I would happily give you, like really
literally, give you 50 or 100 wives. God specifically says You can't do that. You don't do that. This
is wrong. I don't want the kings to do that.
So I think, we have to be misunderstanding God in that case. There's my thought on that, and I do
think that God opposes polygamy. I think it starts in Genesis, and I think, Jesus argues that god opposes polygamy as well in the gospels.
And I’ve talked about that in my marriage and divorce series. If you actually type mike winger polygamy
you will see a couple videos pop up for more details on that.
Yes, so I think it's a phrase, a figure of speech. It's a way of God saying I would provide for you, I would take care of you, I would give you so many things, and that you went and took wrongly and he gets rebuked for that.
All right so let's dig on let's keep going, Joshua Bambrick, question 10 says:
It's often said that God does not affirm polygamy in the old testament, but 2 Samuel 12:8 seems to refute that. I already know what verse you're thinking of; Why would God give multiple wives to David if he opposes polygamy?
okay so let's go to Samuel 12:8.
This is probably the strongest passage in the bible for those who want to suggest the bible supports polygamy.
I’m going to suggest they're drawing too much from the passage but let's read through here and let's feel that difficulty of the passage provides.
So this is when David is being rebuked because he remembers this story with Bathsheba.
He's got multiple wives already.
David does.
Now he also, um...
Sorry, I’m collecting my thoughts and my answers for you as I’m talking.
You ever do that you're thinking while you're talking
So he has multiple wives.
He also then goes on to sleep with Bathsheba; Another man's wife.
horrible sin they commit adultery together
Then, to cover it up he arranges for her husband Uriah to be killed.
So this is murder. Okay, this is murder. He just made Joab do it; made somebody else
do it, but this is murder.
Then Nathan comes and tells him a story that exposes to David how wicked he is and he tells him a story about a man who had all these sheep and he went and stole his neighbor's only sheep that he loved and he killed it. So he could cook it and feed it to his guests and David gets infuriated and
he's like that guy's gonna die. I can't believe he had all these sheep and he did that and then Nathan turns to him and he says you think the guy should die? He says to David, You are the man! David, you're the guy. You're the man who took the man who only had one wife you're the man thus says the lord
the god of Israel. I anointed you king over Israel and I delivered you out of the hand of Saul
and gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah.
um now we know we, we have no record ...let me I’m just gonna start unpacking the answer to your questions here
We have no record of David sleeping with Saul's wives. This is very possibly a phrase that just
means that they were in his care. The reason why that's important is that in their culture when one person took over the kingdom of another person they would often try to still keep the wives of that king in the home or in the castle or in the proximity of the original guy. It gave more credibility to his rulership. Okay, so so there's no record of David having done anything with them that we should
just acknowledge. Now you could try to read it into it if you want, but you're
reading, you're adding stuff into it.
Then, he says,... and if this were too little I would add to you as much more. He would add more and here's where the challenge is going to come. Why have you despised the word of the lord to do what
is evil in his sight? You've struck down Uriah the Hittite with a sword and have taken his wife to be your wife and have killed him with the sword of the ammonites.
Now in pagan cultures, I think that the king would be able to do that but not in god's mind, okay. So now, Therefore the sword shall never depart from your house because you have despised me and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife, thus says the Lord behold I will raise up evil against you out of your own house and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor and he and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of the sun.
This is not okay. This is what's going to happen. It's a consequence. It is not something that God's like, I
love when this happens. This happens frequently with judgment in the old testament where. God says …
Like, in fact, I had someone tell me the bible teaches cannibalism and it's because in
scripture god tells the people if you don't turn to me, you will starve and you'll be eating
each other. Like this is the consequence of your sin. You'll have famine. You'll be a siege around you and sieges they would just wait you out. You'll run out of food you'll be eating each other, and this person quoted this as if this judgment was something that God likes or wants. Right, this is not something God...It's not. It's not, god's approval on these things obviously.
For you, you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel and before the sun. David said to Nathan, I’ve sinned against the Lord, and Nathan said to David, the Lord has also put away your sin you shall not die.
So, the specific verse that the question arises from...
Let me find your question again here. It's Joshua. It's from verse 8. You said
and this is this thing. I think I highlighted it when I went through it.
I would add to you as much more.
The idea is... Look, you've got all these things. I would have given you much more.
Is god suggesting he would have given David more wives?
That God would have just provided (David) with more wives?
Or, is this a way of God's, and I’m going to argue to this, that it's a way of God simply saying
I could I would have given you so many more things without you stealing and taking and killing.
But is God actually suggesting wives?
I think the answer is probably no, and I'm going to support that. I can understand how somebody would
think that is in this passage but I'm going to support this here with the rest of what God says about kings and wives in deuteronomy 17:17. It says about kings, he shall not acquire many wives for
himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excess silver and gold.
So God specifically forbids the idea of kings acquiring lots of wives.
I think (the) New King James puts multiple wives. You can't get a bunch of wives. Kings you're not allowed to do this. It's a normal thing. It's what kings always did.
So what is God saying to David here?
I think he's basically saying, David, whatever you want(ed), I could have been the source for you of
godly things and good things in good ways.
I do think it's worded strangely. I admit that, but I think if we look at consistency with other places like
Deuteronomy 17:17. Then we see that this is not God going, oh, I would happily give you, like really
literally, give you 50 or 100 wives. God specifically says You can't do that. You don't do that. This
is wrong. I don't want the kings to do that.
So I think, we have to be misunderstanding God in that case. There's my thought on that, and I do
think that God opposes polygamy. I think it starts in Genesis, and I think, Jesus argues that god opposes polygamy as well in the gospels.
And I’ve talked about that in my marriage and divorce series. If you actually type mike winger polygamy
you will see a couple videos pop up for more details on that.
Yes, so I think it's a phrase, a figure of speech. It's a way of God saying I would provide for you, I would take care of you, I would give you so many things, and that you went and took wrongly and he gets rebuked for that.
