• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

We can help her?

sweetlissa

sweetlissa

Member
Real Person
Female
I really hate this term. How many single mothers are out there looking for a husband to "help her" or a family to "help her?" Seriously, I didn't get married to hubby because he could help me. In fact my life was simple before I married him and having him in my life has complicated it exceedingly. But it is worth it because of love. People help others all the time without the expectation of love, sex or marriage. Many good Samaritans help others every day. It is part of what we as Christians are called to do. Seeking plural marriage should not be about "helping" a woman. IMHO. It should be about love and serving God. If this were a ministry that we were active in, then we couldn't turn someone away just because they didn't have the personality that we wanted or the looks that we were attracted to. This is NOT a ministry. Ultimately, it is a love affair that God gives us the right to participate in.

Think about it. If a woman becomes a wife because she needs help then she will have a built in inferiority complex as well as an automatic subordination to the first wife. Not because anyone said it but because if she needs help her attitude will likely be one of being needy. The idea of neediness and subordination will get old to all participants very quickly. If a woman becomes part of a family to be helped then what happens when she no longer needs help?

We talk about how we shouldn't have a second wife because of the "help" she can bring to our families (i.e. help with housework, help with child care, extra income.) Why would we encourage people to marry others to help them. Hagar didn't become wife to Abraham because she needed help. Rachel didn't become wife to Jacob because she needed help.

Whatever our motivation in pursuing additional wives, it cannot be because we want to help them.

And yes, I know some of you will bring up the obligation because of the "levirite law". I get that, but can you imagine if you were the widow who then had to marry the closest relative out of obligation? I would hate that someone felt they had to marry me out of responsibility or obligation. I just couldn't handle it emotionally.

I want to love my sw. If we need help at different times, then we will help each other. But the help isn't the reason for it. The love is the reason and the help is a side benefit.

Sweet Lissa
 
This obviously strikes a cord in you and comes across wrong when people say it. I wont disagree with what your saying, in that "helping someone" can't be the only reason we would take a wife. we can and do do that on a daily bases without making them our wife. However I also don't think it is a bad thing if we set out to genuinely care about the well being and happiness of our spouse ('s) or better said, loving them as we love ourselves. But we have to see Gods Holy union being more then just us helping them. I mean God is the one who seen Adam had a need. So if it is God's will and meant to be, then He sees you need her as well and the relationship is mutually beneficial.
 
i am sorry that the word "need" is problematic for you, lissa. but, as has been stated, YHWH saw that adam had a need and created eve, who then had a need.

Isa 4:1 ¶ And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach
i guessing that the goils decided that they had a need that they had not recognized previously.

1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse:........
1Ti 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
i am guessing that those women have needs also.

i think that we all have needs, and sometimes we just need to be needed. :)
 
I did not see "need" as being Lissa's problem. More "help". I agree with Lissa - there is something insulting about it.

Have I been helped by plural marriage? yes I have.
Was I able to manage by myself? yes I was - maybe not always in the way I wanted or had planned for me and my kids, but still we were managing.
Was I happy in the role of single Mom? No - it wasn't how I envisaged my life playing out, but I sure as heck did not "need" to be rescued and I did not make the decision to re-marry because I was in some way desperate to have some other adults "fix me".
Am I very happy that I am in the marriage I am in? Of course I am - I firmly believe it was God's plan :D
 
It seems to be a matter of semantics. I'm guessing "need" is ok because it suggests your helping them with a need they have. Howbeit, setting out to "help" someone suggest your assuming they have a need for you and that you will be able to fill that need. ;)
 
I agree - probably semantics. Of course our spouse fills needs and helps us in a number of ways.

I think Lissa was trying to make the point that taking someone on as a second class citizen because you are superior and able to "help" them is a little off in some way. If I misspoke Lissa feel free to correct me :D
 
eternitee said:
I did not see "need" as being Lissa's problem. More "help". I agree with Lissa - there is something insulting about it.

Have I been helped by plural marriage? yes I have.
Was I able to manage by myself? yes I was - maybe not always in the way I wanted or had planned for me and my kids, but still we were managing.
Was I happy in the role of single Mom? No - it wasn't how I envisaged my life playing out, but I sure as heck did not "need" to be rescued and I did not make the decision to re-marry because I was in some way desperate to have some other adults "fix me".
Am I very happy that I am in the marriage I am in? Of course I am - I firmly believe it was God's plan :D
Click to expand...

Its amazing how words set off triggers that put people in a mind of disagreement. Words like that have to be taken in context and so its hard to conclude its a bad word without seeing the context it was used in. I would be more concerned with why a person felt lesser then if they needed help from their spouse ('s)? I know i need my wives for many, many things! I also know they need me for many, many things. The Creator recognized this need and that's why He joined us. Considering the alternative, (being alone) I am beyond grateful the Creator created me helpmates!
 
I also can't help but think this comes from another thread "we can help her, but why have sex with her?" In that context it was the wife saying it. I have heard wives say that very thing. It is true that a lot of mono minded wives, do see additional wives as weak, pathetic women who can't find a husband of their own. I of course couldn't disagree with that more and I can see why that wouldn't set right with any and all additional wives as well it shouldn't with the husbands..
 
I didn't mean that it is wrong to need our spouses. It isn't wrong to help our spouses. My point is that the motive for marrying anyone should not be to "help" them. If that is the motivation, then it will be built on shaky ground.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I need my hubby very much. He does fulfill many needs in my life. Same should be true of a sw. My point is that my "need" was not his motivation for marrying me.

SweetLissa
 
I don't like needy people!

:twisted:

Seriously, how can you feel certain that someone wants you for well..you or whether they are desperate and/or grateful?

And really, how long will that gratitude last? It is a very unstable way to form a relationship and even more stable in a PM. I think people are fooling themselves if they think it is a good reason. And probably accounts for the lack of success with people trying to look for people in 'need'.

B
 
great post, chaplain - thanks

if women free their men, they'll get love in return
if women claim their men, they'll only create a man that wants to be free

however, i believe for a woman to be able to do this she must be a certain kind of woman ... a woman that doesn't "PRIMARILY" get her worth or her value from belonging to her man

if her man or her marriage "DEFINES" her, and is the "SOURCE" of her identity and well being, then it creates a burden for this man to carry (that his wife's entire well being is now dependant on him)

that man will view his woman as never happy, never content, never satisfied b/c he simply will NEVER BE ABLE TO DO ENOUGH to make her happy ... working out of this paradigm he'll end up feeling bad about himself for being such a lousy husband AND he'll end up wanting to avoid his wife

however, if a woman brings HER OWN SEPARATE SELF to the marriage (which she truly is as she lives BEFORE the Lord), versus DEFINING AND FINDING HERSELF FROM THE MARRIAGE, then not only will she be rid of the fears, jealousies and pain that come from dependance, but she'll be able to truly HELP her husband AND GIVE TO HIM not always BE NEEDING something from him AND WANTING TO TAKE FROM HIM

in turn, this man will be BLESSED by such a woman, a strong woman, a woman who realizes her TRUE self, her true identity does not come from some man, but COMES FROM HER FATHER IN HEAVEN who Loves her, who created her, who gives her peace that passes understanding, who provides for her EVERY need (God meets this woman's emotional needs), and who SAVES her for all eternity

additionally, this man will NATURALLY want to be with this woman and want to give to this woman, he'll want companionship with her, he will want to talk with her, he will want to LOVE her b/c THIS KIND OF WOMAN IS ATTRACTIVE BEYOND MEASURE

i want the freedom that comes with loving my wife BECAUSE she's happy, i don't want the un-carryable burden of loving my wife TO MAKE her happy

PM is a refiner's fire for men in many, many ways ... i know

And as I'm turning into the leader I've always supposed to have been i'm beginning to realize PM is also a refiner's fire for wives in many, many different ways

i pray God's continued mercies, grace, and blessing on ALL of us that continue to live accoridng His waystedjohnson

Posts: 44
Joined: 11:21pm - Tue, 16 Feb 2010
Private message
Click to expand...
This is Ted Johnson's post on, 1st wive's you will loose your husbands.

Hey this post was God given to me, because, I have struggled and wasn't able to see the right way. God edified and has given me much wisdom, and I think many women need to know this and see it from how Ted Johnson has broke this down, through the holy spirit! Lisa great postGod just confirmed and keeps confirming this NEEDINESS which can drain our husbands... thinking maturely on this issue.
 
Okay!!! We NEED GOD THE CREATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need God!!!!

He is the resource and the one we can call upon, marriage is our duty unto the Lord.
What can I do for my husband? What can I bring to the table?
 
Hi sweetlissa. Great post. I agree wholeheartedly.

Why do we feel the need to provide all these supporting justifications for adding another wife? The theological arguments are sound. Having to provide a list of reasons, smacks of insecurity to me. I mean, do first timers get asked "why..." when they announce with star struck eyes that they are about to marry their beloved? No of course not, everyone knows why, they simply add their congratulations.

Vote 1 for "No Reason required" marriage!

ylop
 
sweetlissa said:
I really hate this term. How many single mothers are out there looking for a husband to "help her" or a family to "help her?" Seriously, I didn't get married to hubby because he could help me.
Click to expand...

Great post.

Who was created to help whom?
Who was made for whom?

What did Adam help Eve with? Did Issac help Rebecca? With what?

Kudos Lisa...
 
ylop said:
Hi sweetlissa. Great post. I agree wholeheartedly.

Why do we feel the need to provide all these supporting justifications for adding another wife? The theological arguments are sound. Having to provide a list of reasons, smacks of insecurity to me. I mean, do first timers get asked "why..." when they announce with star struck eyes that they are about to marry their beloved? No of course not, everyone knows why, they simply add their congratulations.

Vote 1 for "No Reason required" marriage!

ylop
Click to expand...

I agree with you here, it is and should be seen as no different then taking the 1st wife. There is no need to justify our feelings with reasons, such as she needs my help.

As I pointed out earlier, normally that comes from the existing wife. She is trying to rationalize why you would want another and its her way of saying, "I can understand you want to help her with her need but..." Seeing it that way seems to be a lot easier then just accepting, you want the other for the same reasons you wanted the her.. Plus a lot of 1st wives trained to think mono is the only way, look down on women and think they are needy if they want to marry a guy who is married instead of finding "their own" man.
 
I posted this under A Wife is a Wife is a Wife but believe it fits here as well.

I agree with your assessment. That said, here is what I think happens.

Husband approaches wife and brings up subject of polygamy. Wife freaks out asks questions why she isn't good enough, how can he possibly love another woman and her at the same time, and more.
In an effort to bring some level of rationality to the situation he brings up other reasons why he might want a wife and comes up with helping single mothers, helping single women out... after all that's very noble...
Of course the woman then responds along the lines of well why can't you just help her and not marry her and not have sex with her.
He finds other reasons. At some point it can become quite circular.
Most westernized women struggle to understand that some men are wired with the ability to fully love more than one woman at a time. If this were not true it would be much easier for a man to say to his wife, I'm willing and able to fully love you and another woman (or women) at the same time.

I'll add that a partial demonstration of this is the fact that I'm able to love my wife and my children. I love them the same, however, the expression of that love is matched to who they are as a person.
 
i am sorry, but i just do not get it.
is the intention of this line of thought to make a woman with real needs, one who may feel desperate and at the end of her rope, feel like a leper?

i am glad that my heavenly bridegroom did not have the "if you are needy and without hope, stay away" vibe.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
this has been my heart toward the women that i have married. are the relationships based on need? no, but neither are they based on the shallow Roman-ce of western civilization. they are based on love, love that acknowledges and even embraces need.

do not get me wrong, needs are not generic and non of us have unlimited abilities for taking care of needs. no one should put more on their plate than they can handle.

ministry? i am sorry, i am not my own, i have been bought with a price. i have never considered myself to have the right to not be a minister, whether in marriage or outside of it.
 
steve said:
i am sorry, but i just do not get it.
is the intention of this line of thought to make a woman with real needs, one who may feel desperate and at the end of her rope, feel like a leper?

i am glad that my heavenly bridegroom did not have the "if you are needy and without hope, stay away" vibe.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
this has been my heart toward the women that i have married. are the relationships based on need? no, but neither are they based on the shallow Roman-ce of western civilization. they are based on love, love that acknowledges and even embraces need.

do not get me wrong, needs are not generic and non of us have unlimited abilities for taking care of needs. no one should put more on their plate than they can handle.

ministry? i am sorry, i am not my own, i have been bought with a price. i have never considered myself to have the right to not be a minister, whether in marriage or outside of it.
Click to expand...

I agree Steve, I think if someone were to take a wife only because they could "help" them they need to know marriage is about a lot more then that, at the same time, I have never met anyone looking to take a wife based solely on the reason of helping her. Or in other words, I have never heard any man talking about being able to help his wife or vice verse and it come across as a bad thing to me. So I am a little lost to what is really being said here? Where is the problem really at and is the problem with husbands wanting to be able to help their wife a lot broader then the tiny box I put it in? I mean if it is only a problem when that is the sole reason and that almost never happens, then it doesn't seem like much of a problem at all..

I see a much bigger problem in the fact a wife would have a problem with her husband believing he could help her. Having a headship is a huge need. Only Pride would ever make me not want to be anything but grateful to Christ, Where would we all be if we had a problem recognizing how much we need help and guidance from the Father?
 
I didn't marry my wife for the purposes of "helping her", but rather I was attracted to her for a number of reasons. Shared faith, interest, similarities, and her strength of character.

Perhaps Biblical concepts of suitable helper, and being equally yoked are worthy of greater consideration.

Of the few other women I had considered marrying, whom "needed help", lets just say, I dodged a bullet. Their lives continued on the same train wreck that I had hoped to help them from, even though some eventually married men capable of helping them.

I believe a godly husband will do the most good for a godly woman. Don't overlook one on the way to polish your shiny armor.
 
Steve,
My OP was about MOTIVATION and making excuses for marrying someone. I know people need each other. That is a natural part of any relationship. My intent was to get people to think about their motivation for marrying people. Someone else said it very well, that no one needs excuses to marry their first wife. Everyone just understands that people get married and they don't need an excuse.

I simply want people to be honest about why they want a second or other wife.

Just for giggles, have any of the people on the board married someone to "help her?" If so, how did that go?

SweetLissa
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top