Meat Sexual Duties & Children

[rockfox]

A lot of marriages suffer from decreased sex if not outright dead bedrooms. Its so bad out there that amoung men we interact with who are past the honeymoon stage the default assumption is that very little sex goes on in marriage. They are shocked that it could be any other way.

There are a lot of causes and situations but one of the places this commonly goes array is when children show up.

I doubt that it is most mom deliberately keeping her husband off of her

Consciously or subconsciously it matters not. I hear from a lot of men that the new kid unnecessarily interferes with the sex life. Often it comes in the form of 'too tired' or 'don't wake the baby' or keeping the kid in the bed or resisting moving the kid into his or her own room. But no matter how you slice it, the kid get's in the way of their sex life and she's not helping matters any.

I would say caring for a preschooler, toddler and infant on her own in addition to keeping up her household duties. Sleep deprivation and exhaustion are real to wives and mothers

Our grandmothers and great-grandmothers found time to fulfill their sexual duties and they had 2 or 3 or 4 times as many kids and a whole lot fewer modern conveniences to help around the house. Wives today have never had it easier around the home: dishwashers, automatic washing machines, prepared meals, freezers, grocery stores, public schooling. MOST of their work has been automated or outsourced. Yet more than ever they claim to not have the time and energy.

No, they're just excuses. This could be outright manipulation. It could be the result of flagging desire (more on that later). Or it could be a symptom of failing to appreciate her duties or show him reverence in life.

We know these are excuses because when it comes to our other duties in life (going to work, taking care of the children, going into battle, etc) failing is not excused if someone has a lack of sleep. The problem here is wives don't view keeping their husband sexually satisfied as a marital duty on par with caring for their household duties; if they even view it as a duty at all.

But it is a woman's duty. One of if not the highest of all her duties.

If a woman values being a good wife, a good Christian, she'll keep her husband sexually satisfied. And even when she has a house full of children she'll find a way to make it happen instead of using the children as an excuse.

When busy moms neglect their husbands they're communicating that they are here for the children but not for him. That he is only there to shovel money and time her way and she won't reciprocate.

More on how husbands can handle this situation in a followup post.

 

[FollowingHim2]

Our grandmothers and great-grandmothers found time to fulfill their sexual duties and they had 2 or 3 or 4 times as many kids and a whole lot fewer modern conveniences to help around the house. Wives today have never had it easier around the home: dishwashers, automatic washing machines, prepared meals, freezers, grocery stores, public schooling. MOST of their work has been automated or outsourced. Yet more than ever they claim to not have the time and energy.

And they had maids, servants, mothers, grandmothers, sisters, and a close knit community to help them and encourage them. They didn't work outside the home. They didn't have a lot of other commitments outside the home.

Honestly rockfox, I've seen you post some doosies but this one... I don't understand why you have such an awful view of women, and why you generalise women and situations so very much. One woman is a feminist and suddenly all have feminist tendencies and obviously want to be feminist.
We're not all like that, honest .

As a male, you do not understand the level of tired that comes with being pregnant, and breastfeeding, let alone doing both at the same time. I didn't even understand how bad it was until I wasn't pregnant and/or breastfeeding!

Instead of being focused on a woman fufilling her marital duties, maybe a husband could be focused on supporting the mother of his children, and knowing that this is only a stage of a life and not a permanent situation in their marriage.

 

[Joleneakamama]

It was a turning point in my folks' marriage when one of my sisters (18 months old) was very sick and my dad fussed about his needs not being met.
We all have needs, but it communicates selfishness imo to put sexual gratification over care of the "weaker vessel" in your care, and a mom that is seriously sleep deprived and concerned over the well being a baby is not likely to feel like love making. I realize this is an extreme example and some women may use being tired or kids as an excuse.....but I would suspect IF it is usually a mutual pleasure it is more a legit reason when she "plays that card."

Now if she is NEVER interested you've got much bigger problems then a lack of ummm, understanding duty. Again...just my opinion.

Edited to add that her desire (again...opinion, experience and observation) is very related to to the degree of respect she has for him. Obedience is not always out of respect. If he is not respectable even if she submits her desire may wane. If he models self control, responsibility AND love....he is not likely to have problems.

 

[SerenaJoy82]

It is always the woman's fault got it! How dare I turn my ex-husband down when at 2 weeks postpartum after a difficult delivery with an episiotomy, so I could heal from childbirth! Do not worry Rockfox, he took what he said the state and God said I owed him forcefully. In all seriousness, I am getting sick of hearing only about the importance of a man's satisfaction and needs in this department. Mind you they are important, I do not dispute that. Yet, according to 1 Corinthians 7, a wife is just as entitled to sexual pleasure in the marriage bed as her husband.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

I read @rockfox post, but I don’t see where he is insinuating that there are never extenuating circumstances. If it doesn’t apply to you (or your aunt or your sister or whoever) then don’t take it personally. I’m getting sick of people being personally offended when someone is talking in generalities.

 

[SerenaJoy82]

I read @rockfox post, but I don’t see where he is insinuating that there are never extenuating circumstances. If it doesn’t apply to you (or your aunt or your sister or whoever) then don’t take it personally. I’m getting sick of people being personally offended when someone is talking in generalities.

If you are sick of it then you are free to ignore the post or comment that offends you. Some of his posts reflect a very low view of women in general.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

If you are sick of it then you are free to ignore the post or comment that offends you.

Now that is excellent advice ^^^

 

[Cap]

This is not been designated a meat thread so maybe a little gentleness may help, especially on a subject that effects both sexes.

I think, sexual obligations in a marriage takes two. Sure there is the forced way from the man to the woman based on headship, but so is the idea that taking another wife at his discretion, but that never works in the end and so too the idea of forcing sexual pleasure on someone else.

 

[Cap]

One of the greatest benefits of plural marriage is the fact that the woman's power of the relationship through sex has been taken away. If a husband is suffering from a lack in that department, there is another option. Usually when that option is entertained things work themselves out.

 

[eye4them]

How dare I turn my ex-husband down when at 2 weeks postpartum after a difficult delivery with an episiotomy, so I could heal from childbirth!

I'm sorry he did that to you.

"Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying: 'When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean. 'On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Then she shall remain in the blood of her purification for thirty-three days; she shall not touch any consecrated thing, nor enter the sanctuary until the days of her purification are completed. But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean for two weeks, as in her menstruation; and she shall remain in the blood of her purification for sixty-six days." (Lev 12:1-5 NASB)

So it appears that the correct waiting period is 40 days for a boy and 80 days for girl. And if she's literally not healed, then waiting longer is undoubtedly implied (Eph 5:29)

(rhetorical question; ) Do they teach this part of The Whole Counsel of God in the churches?

 

[rockfox]

And they had maids, servants, mothers, grandmothers, sisters, and a close knit community to help them and encourage them.

The whole working outside the home thing is a red herring: stay at home moms act like this too. That is the whole reason I point out how much easier it is today. Managing a home today just doesn't require nearly the work and effort as in the past. And the average American woman did not have maids or servants in the past. They had community and extended family sure; but that doesn't get the food cooked or the baby fed. Big families meant grandma was spread thin or likely had her own kids at home yet. Travel by horse over rough roads meant they couldn't just pop by whenever they felt like it either. Especially out on the frontier.

Grandma was around to help the women of the past with her 6 kids so stay at home modern mom doing it alone with 1 kid just can't keep up? Please.

I don't care how much family you have to help. Tending a cooking fire, gathering wood, hauling water, milking the cows, growing and putting up all your own food, doing laundry by hand...these things take a tremendous amount of work. Absolutely massive. It's hard for you to appreciate how much if you've never done it. Women today comparatively live in the lap of luxury only matched by the very richest (with servants) in the past. Frankly, the modern American woman pretty much has servants. A servant to wash her laundry (washing machine) a servant to cook (prepared food) a servant to hitch up the horse (automobiles) a servant to gather her wood (electricity), a servant to satisfy her husband (porn), etc. etc. Life has never been easier.

As a male, you do not understand the level of tired that comes with being pregnant, and breastfeeding, let alone doing both at the same time. I didn't even understand how bad it was until I wasn't pregnant and/or breastfeeding!

B.S.This is the same old song and dance women always pull about hard uniquely hard they have it. Men work hard too, often harder, and at more dangerous tasks. I've worked in close proximity to my wife through many pregnancies and nursings, I've a very good idea the level of tired. I'm intimately involved in the raising of my family, caring for kids, I've not been spared. I know what level of work it takes for her to say, "that was harder than giving birth" and how that compares to what I do.

Yet, according to 1 Corinthians 7, a wife is just as entitled to sexual pleasure in the marriage bed as her husband.

Agreed. I never said otherwise. Yet it is most often the man who is being sexually deprived, which is why this comes up.

In all seriousness, I am getting sick of hearing only about the importance of a man's satisfaction and needs in this department.

Why should your lack of empathy for the suffering of others mean I can't help them?

It is always the woman's fault got it! How dare I turn my ex-husband down when at 2 weeks postpartum after a difficult delivery with an episiotomy, so I could heal from childbirth!

Did I say anything like that? Personally, I agree with following the dictates of Lev 12:1-5,18:19; though I've allowed 1 Cor 7 to trump that.

Look, I'm speaking in generalities, not about any one person's presented situation. Don't project your painful experiences onto my claims.

 

[rockfox]

This is not been designated a meat thread so maybe a little gentleness may help, especially on a subject that effects both sexes.

My bad. This should have been labeled meat. For some reason I saw "deeper discussions" and thought this was a meat area. Fixed. Thanks.

but it communicates selfishness imo to put sexual gratification over care of the "weaker vessel" in your care, and a mom that is seriously sleep deprived and concerned over the well being a baby is not likely to feel like love making

It's not that shes severely sleep deprived, it's just she'd rather sleep than have sex with you and so tells you no. And when you have kids, night time is one of the few good times for sex.

There will of course be times that mom is very sleep deprived or sick or kids are sick that it is best to let her sleep some night. That is why a man should dwell with his wife with understanding and compassion. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the pat excuses women make. Women who deny their husband for days, weeks on end. Women who are not willing loose a little sleep to take care of her husbands needs. Women who will loose sleep for the kids but not for hubby. Women who allow the children to impinge on their sex life. Women who will loose sleep to jump you on a Wednesday cause she's ovulating despite having a cold and needing to work tomorrow but put you off for the next 3 weeks cause she's "not feeling it", "tired", "has work tomorrow". Women who will only have sex when they really really feel like it. Women who have the final say on whether or not you have sex.

I've personally gone weeks, months and even years at a time without adequate rest, stayed up all night with no sleep at all, because that is what it took to take care of my families needs. Getting a couple less hours of sleep every once in a while isn't too much to expect of a wife to take care of her husbands needs.

why you generalise women and situations so very much

Because I'm not talking about a specific person's situation. We are talking generalities. Here is the very common situation I'm talking about:

A lot of marriages suffer from decreased sex if not outright dead bedrooms. Its so bad out there that amoung men we interact with who are past the honeymoon stage the default assumption is that very little sex goes on in marriage. They are shocked that it could be any other way.

There are a lot of causes and situations but one of the places this commonly goes array is when children show up.

If this conversation doesn't apply to you, don't sweat it. There is no good reason to defend women behaving badly.

It is always the woman's fault got it!

No, it is sometimes the woman's fault. But one can never place any blame on women without a host of people complaining, "stop blaming women!", "you just hate women!". Some of this is conscious, some unconscious, some her fault, some his. I'll not shy from placing a share of the onus on her to fulfill her responsibilities just as most people put all the onus on men to fulfill theirs (and some of hers too!).

If we can get past knee jerk defend woman reactions I'll talk about how men can help the situation.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

My bad. This should have been labeled meat. For some reason I saw "deeper discussions" and thought this was a meat area. Fixed. Thanks.



It's not that shes severely sleep deprived, it's just she'd rather sleep than have sex with you and so tells you no. And when you have kids, night time is one of the few good times for sex.

There will of course be times that mom is very sleep deprived or sick or kids are sick that it is best to let her sleep some night. That is why a man should dwell with his wife with understanding and compassion. That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the pat excuses women make. Women who deny their husband for days, weeks on end. Women who are not willing loose a little sleep to take care of her husbands needs. Women who will loose sleep for the kids but not for hubby. Women who allow the children to impinge on their sex life. Women who will loose sleep to jump you on a Wednesday cause she's ovulating despite having a cold and needing to work tomorrow but put you off for the next 3 weeks cause she's "not feeling it", "tired", "has work tomorrow". Women who will only have sex when they really really feel like it. Women who have the final say on whether or not you have sex.

I've personally gone weeks, months and even years at a time without adequate rest, stayed up all night with no sleep at all, because that is what it took to take care of my families needs. Getting a couple less hours of sleep every once in a while isn't too much to expect of a wife to take care of her husbands needs.



Because I'm not talking about a specific person's situation. We are talking generalities. Here is the very common situation I'm talking about:



If this conversation doesn't apply to you, don't sweat it. There is no good reason to defend women behaving badly.



No, it is sometimes the woman's fault. But one can never place any blame on women without a host of people complaining, "stop blaming women!", "you just hate women!". Some of this is conscious, some unconscious, some her fault, some his. I'll not shy from placing a share of the onus on her to fulfill her responsibilities just as most people put all the onus on men to fulfill theirs (and some of hers too!).

If we can get past knee jerk defend woman reactions I'll talk about how men can help the situation.

My wife is on some other forums for women and so many of the women on there talk openly among themselves about depriving their husbands of sex and using it for manipulation. That’s not even in question, so I’m not sure why the reaction here to talking in generalities.

(Warning, the above post may be triggering. Please note that it is probably not written about you or anyone you know or even anyone on BF)

 

[Cap]

I've personally gone weeks, months and even years at a time without adequate rest, stayed up all night with no sleep at all, because that is what it took to take care of my families needs. Getting a couple less hours of sleep every once in a while isn't too much to expect of a wife to take care of her husbands needs.

Men can be on their deathbed and still want sex, so technically that doesn't qualify.

 

[FollowingHim2]

My wife is on some other forums for women and so many of the women on there talk openly among themselves about depriving their husbands of sex and using it for manipulation.

Ok, so we're I'm coming from, is that I can't even imagine someone doing that. It's ridiculous. Some feminist non-Christian women, yes, I've heard that from them, but I'd expect nothing less from their mouths. But the type of women I speak with, no.
Maybe I'm just sheltered.

I don't want this thread to become one where we're arguing whether a woman or man feels more pain etc, and I can see it ending up there on a random tangent.

I get frustrated when I see someone say that women have modern washing machines etc so they shouldn't be tired. I was so tired once that I put the washing into the fridge instead of the washing machine. Fat lot of good a modern washing machine does for me if I can't even figure out how to get the clothes in it!

Women are genuinely tired with having small children and all the entails. And yes, sometimes they are genuinely too tired for sex. What needs to happen is that they need to be supported.
Also, communication. For example, when your wife has finally gotten baby to sleep, and she's heading to bed knowing she'll be up in 2 hours to feed again, don't bug her then for sex. Mention it earlier in the day, bring dinner home with you after work, help get baby off to sleep while mum rests, let mum have a nap so she has more energy in the evenings. Work together as a team to make your relationship work.

This is where polygyny comes in. A larger family group makes it easier. Another person to hold baby, another person to let you nap in the afternoons (or have a 'nap' with hubby in the afternoon ).

If you have a woman who is making excuses, not willing to work together, and has the attitude of wanting to deprive hubby for some reason, then you have much much bigger problems on your hand.

 

[FollowingHim2]

As a male, you do not understand the level of tired that comes with being pregnant, and breastfeeding, let alone doing both at the same time. I didn't even understand how bad it was until I wasn't pregnant and/or breastfeeding!

Just to clarify this, I mean physically. I don't mean not getting as much sleep. There is a physical effect on the body from energy use and hormones to do with being pregnant and breastfeeding. Men don't feel that, they can't. Men and women are different. It's not a bad or good thing, it's not something to use to lord over a man, it just is a fact, and it makes women tired.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Just to clarify this, I mean physically. I don't mean not getting as much sleep. There is a physical effect on the body from energy use and hormones to do with being pregnant and breastfeeding. Men don't feel that, they can't. Men and women are different. It's not a bad or good thing, it's not something to use to lord over a man, it just is a fact, and it makes women tired.

Hence all wives should have sister wives

 

[cnystrom]

A lot of marriages suffer from decreased sex if not outright dead bedrooms.

I am opposed to this.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I am opposed to this.

Spoken like a true politician!
I had retreat flashbacks when I read that. Lol
Too bad outsiders can't fix marital issues for others.

Edited to add that I have a different take on the aforementioned issue. I'm not sure such a problem really exists. I think we should select a committee to look into it all to determine the real nature and scope of the problem. Then if it is determined that a problem exists we can have another group do an impact study to be certain their recommendations for correcting problem would not endanger the psychotherapist population.

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

Spoken like a true politician!
I had retreat flashbacks when I read that. Lol
Too bad outsiders can't fix marital issues for others.

Edited to add that I have a different take on the aforementioned issue. I'm not sure such a problem really exists. I think we should select a committee to look into it all to determine the real nature and scope of the problem. Then if it is determined that a problem exists we can have another group do an impact study to be certain their recommendations for correcting problem would not endanger the psychotherapist population.

I concur, Jolene, I concur