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Sex, marriage & emotions- ramblings of a FW

WifeOfHisYouth

WifeOfHisYouth

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Female
Matthew 1:24-25

Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.

While reading today, I noticed something I never had before. Joseph took Mary as his wife, but did not know her until after Jesus was born (I knew that before).. BUT it made me think, I have seen the debate over and over "When is one 'married'? Commitment to be married or after sex has been consummated?"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems pretty clear that sex in itself is not the cause of a marriage. It's the act of deciding and committing to be married, whether sex occurs that day or months later- either way one is married.

Sex has been an area of deep conflict in my heart since PM has come up as a possibility in our lives. I have felt (I know, feelings are not a basis of facts- but hey I'm a pregnant woman and am emotional sometimes) that if my husband were to have a sexual relationship with another wife, their sex life somehow diminishes my role/ my worth in his eyes. I am not as needed in his life, not as wanted.

However, if sex were the "seal" to make a marriage than having his desire be divided between wives, makes it so that when sex isn't happening as often, the marriage is not as strong.. When a SW comes into the picture, I will not have the option to be intimate with my husband everyday, which in return led me to feel like my "marriage" could crumble (based on the sex is marriage mindset).

All of that to say, I found comfort in that verse reaffirming to me that marriage is more than sex. Sex is the gift that comes with marriage, but sex is not what defines my marriage. I know sex is the area that many first wives struggle with, and we have a hard time getting over it when a new relationship is added. So any other FW reading this, take heart, your role as a wife in marriage is not diminished, weakened or less valuable because your husband has another intimate relationship with another wife.

Sex is the beautiful gift, but the commitment is the glue.
 
Well said, and a good passage to refer to.

I think it helps to remember that the Greek for "wife" is simply the word for "woman". So, literally, we read that Joseph took her to be his woman but didn't have sex with her until later. In my mind reading it this way helps us to understand it a lot, because it eliminates all the cultural presuppositions we attach to the English word "wife". Mary became Joseph's woman. She became a woman under his care. There was no need for sex for her to be his woman, she was his woman by agreement - but having become his woman, he was able to have sex with her once they chose to do so. That sex would help to seal the covenant, but was a detail rather than the fundamental thing.
 
Some things to keep in mind here; one is that he was soft of claiming to have sex with her by marrying her and claiming her son.

There is a verse I believe that says if a husband won't have sex with his bride that she is free to return to her father's house. I can't find it though and I'm starting to doubt myself over it. If anyone knows of such a verse I would appreciate you pointing it out.

There is a dark side to this first wives and sex thing and I hesitate to go there since I've already incensed one woman this month but let's be honest, we all know I'm going there.

This issue you can not be separated from a woman's desire to have control or at least influence over her husband. I haven't met a wife yet who wanted sex as much as her husband and even the best wife will consider sex burdensome and try to withhold it from time to time.

I know good church men with good church wives who feel lucky if their wife has sex with them once a month if they've "earned" it. We've put women in charge of sex. That's really what's at the heart of the forced monogamy cabal. Since sex represents intimacy with Christ and wives represent the church it then becomes blasphemous to put women in charge of sex, to capture Christ and make him subordinate to the church.

Intimacy with Christ is a priceless gift of mercy to the church but that's not how wives treat intimacy with their husbands. Some consider it their right (which is not incorrect), some consider it a tool or even a weapon and others consider it an odious task. Very few equate it with salvation and becoming the bride of Christ.

Sex is remarkably important in all of this. A man can have a close and emotionally ripe relationship with his mother, sisters, aunts etc. It is sex which sets the marriage relationship apart.

And with everything in our faith there is this paradox of gaining control by giving it up or losing control by grasping it. If sex does not make a marriage then there is no prohibition on sex outside of marriage.

This is an old debate here so I won't go into it but biblical commands against fornication do not refer to what we call fornication. So that if sex doesn't equal marriage then there are even more women your husband can have sex with; widows and legally divorced women.

You are far better off doing the hard work of adopting a biblical attitude towards sex now, which will greatly enhance your marriage even if a sister wife never materializes, then you are by lessening the importance of sex.
 
Ah, yes, then you might throw 1 Corinthians 7:4 into the mix...and wonder how many more layers we might peel off before even getting close to the core.

Sex is one of those areas that leaves me a bit confounded. My husband patiently answers my (probably redundant) questions and he is right. We do have to start with dare I say fear before we get to the feel good lovey stuff. But there are layers here that I believe we just don't have the capacity to fully grasp. For now we see through a glass darkly...
 
Oh, I was in no way trying to diminishing the importance of sex in marriage. I guess my thoughts were not clearly stated. Sex in marriage is fantastic and very much enjoyed. I was NOT promoting that a wife should use it as a control method over her husband, EVER. (That causes all kinds of problems and is not submission) Sex should be enjoyed and OFTEN :)! As a first wife, that has a happy and fruitful sex life, adding a second wife will inevitably take away from several of my normal days per week, not his... This is where having my focus on "sex=marriage" only that left me feeling my role as a wife was diminished, that my marriage is not as important.. Which is not the case. That's what I meant by marriage is made up of the commitment and sex is the beautiful gift within marriage. It has helped me to not become bitter when thinking about my husband with another when it's not my turn, but to in return turned my focus to enjoying the moments that I am able to spend being intimate with the man God has blessed me with.
 
WifeOfHisYouth said:
When a SW comes into the picture, I will not have the option to be intimate with my husband everyday,
Click to expand...
You know, sex doesn't just have to be at nighttime, and plenty of guys can do it more than once a day, JS.
For quite a while now I've been quite happy for Samuel to have sex with another woman. I see it as a blessing for me in 2 ways. Firstly, if I'm not in the mood/tired/pregnant there's another woman to send him to, I'm not the be all and end all. And also, with another woman around I hopefully wouldn't be as tired, Samuel and I could get to bed earlier (or be able to have an afternoon 'nap' while someone else watches the kids), and so we could very well end up having sex more frequently. And as long as he doesn't accidentally call out her name during it, that's all quite alright to me.
 
FollowingHim2 said:
You know, sex doesn't just have to be at nighttime, and plenty of guys can do it more than once a day, JS.
Click to expand...

Haha that's definitely not our issue.. On either side.
 
@ WifeOfHisYouth I understand exactly where you are coming from. But I can also testify that as a first wife there was never anything lacking in our sexual life before and now that my husband is in PM we do it more. I have expressed my concerns to my husband just like you have stated in your first post. I am 10 years younger then my husband and am very active... we are more intimate now then before PM. Thank Yah or else that might make me insecure in other ways. I'm very thankful my husband is a considerate man. Good point followingHim2! I testify it is true we are together more!
 
I appreciate the original post here. I agree marriage is so much more then sex. Thanks for sharing that mental shift in Your perspective.

ZecAustin said:
If sex does not make a marriage then there is no prohibition on sex outside of marriage.
Click to expand...

And on the other hand, if sex does make a marriage, sex outside of marriage does not exist.

ZecAustin said:
This issue you can not be separated from a woman's desire to have control or at least influence over her husband. I haven't met a wife yet who wanted sex as much as her husband and even the best wife will consider sex burdensome and try to withhold it from time to time.
Click to expand...

You do bite off a lot in claiming such broad knowledge of women, including those in the "best wife" catagory. *wry grin*

Now I have never claimed to be in a "best wife" catagory, but I've never seen sex as a burden. I suspect women with those views, are with men who are judgmental and selfish (two very un christlike qualities) as a man who mirrors Christ, will draw others to him (as in be attractive to, and desired by women).


Kathy said:
Good point followingHim2! I testify it is true we are together more!
Click to expand...

I have heard for years that men with more then one wife 'rise to the occasion,' (pun intended) and the first wife does not have half the man she had as the only wife, when he takes a second.

It's nice to hear another confirm this, as my desire for a co-wife has NOTHING to do with wanting less intimacy with my husband!

I have long thought that quality time might be easier to manage in a two wife family, and I am just as willing to hold the home front, so a sw could get away with hubby.

Finally, I know of nothing that could take the place of sex, as I know of nothing else like it. It is really a coming together of two people that is indescribable. Thinking of the single women that men don't exist for, and the complete lack of lawful relationship opportunities they have leaves me very thankful, and very willing to share.
I feel very blessed indeed.
 
@joeneakamama lol I like you! And I also agree with all of your above statements! If sex constitutes marriage then there is no such thing as concubines... as they wouldn't be called that but would be called wives. Unless I'm mistaken that is what I'm thinking. ... Perhaps a man, fellow brother in Christ would want to elaborate on this if they haven't already.
 
@Zec it seems to me there are at least a couple women and wives on this post who want and like sex just as much as their husbands... me admittedly one of them, none of us claim to be in the best wife catergory but it also looks like at least a couple of us don't find sex... burdensome at all!!
 
Joseph was betrothed to Mary.
Betrothal is the first step in marriage and the commitment that is made makes them already partially married.
Notice that he was going to "put her away". That is divorce language, proving that a marriage was in progress.
 
ZecAustin said:
Some things to keep in mind here; one is that he was soft of claiming to have sex with her by marrying her and claiming her son.

There is a verse I believe that says if a husband won't have sex with his bride that she is free to return to her father's house. I can't find it though and I'm starting to doubt myself over it. If anyone knows of such a verse I would appreciate you pointing it out.

There is a dark side to this first wives and sex thing and I hesitate to go there since I've already incensed one woman this month but let's be honest, we all know I'm going there.

This issue you can not be separated from a woman's desire to have control or at least influence over her husband. I haven't met a wife yet who wanted sex as much as her husband and even the best wife will consider sex burdensome and try to withhold it from time to time.

I know good church men with good church wives who feel lucky if their wife has sex with them once a month if they've "earned" it. We've put women in charge of sex. That's really what's at the heart of the forced monogamy cabal. Since sex represents intimacy with Christ and wives represent the church it then becomes blasphemous to put women in charge of sex, to capture Christ and make him subordinate to the church.

Intimacy with Christ is a priceless gift of mercy to the church but that's not how wives treat intimacy with their husbands. Some consider it their right (which is not incorrect), some consider it a tool or even a weapon and others consider it an odious task. Very few equate it with salvation and becoming the bride of Christ.

Sex is remarkably important in all of this. A man can have a close and emotionally ripe relationship with his mother, sisters, aunts etc. It is sex which sets the marriage relationship apart.

And with everything in our faith there is this paradox of gaining control by giving it up or losing control by grasping it. If sex does not make a marriage then there is no prohibition on sex outside of marriage.

This is an old debate here so I won't go into it but biblical commands against fornication do not refer to what we call fornication. So that if sex doesn't equal marriage then there are even more women your husband can have sex with; widows and legally divorced women.

You are far better off doing the hard work of adopting a biblical attitude towards sex now, which will greatly enhance your marriage even if a sister wife never materializes, then you are by lessening the importance of sex.
Click to expand...

Sorry brother. We agree on much, but not this one. Not to be too open with details, but I've often awakened out of my sleep to find my Mrs. hovering over me. She purposefully woke me to.... Our intimate moments took time to perfect, but we have no problems, and it is I who sometimes has to pull up tired.

Intimacy in a committed, godly relationship is bliss.

We described (not in graphic details) to my prospective 2nd how satisfied and mutually gratified we feel, and that neither of us is left undone...ever. Why? Selfishness is put aside and we each look to satisfy the other. She looked at us as though we spoke a foreign language. Having been married for as long as we have, she sat speechless to think it was still possible. We only spoke to her about this to prove to her that our commitment "made" it that way. It wasn't coercion or control on anybody's part.

What you've described is some immature Christian (maybe stillborn) behavior by both husband and wife. Immature for the wife to try to control her man. Immature on the husband's part to not satisfy his woman first (sacrifice). If a woman knows she will be pleased at all costs, you will have to start sleeping in a mummy sleeping bag to ward her off.
 
Joleneakamama said:
And on the other hand, if sex does make a marriage, sex outside of marriage does not exist.
Click to expand...

This is what I believe. Sex isn't the only way to form a marriage but it is the final, necessary step without which the marriage will not be formed. And if you skip all the other steps and go straight to the sex you have formed a marriage. Prostitutes do become one flesh with their clients. Paul uses the exact same language to describe it as Christ uses when quoting Genesis account of Adam and Eve's one flesh union.

I am very glad to hear how exceptional all of your marriages are. It is a great testament to what results from doing God's things God's way. I have been around church a long time though and I can assure you that your experiences are the exception.

I also am firmly convinced that a proper understanding of sex makes the polygyny argument moot and frames marriage as God intended it.

At any rate, no one should take my big picture, macrotheology and think I was commenting on any individual. I always have a view towards the silent readers who just read individual posts and don't always get the whole story.
 
WifeOfHisYouth said:
Haha that's definitely not our issue.. On either side.
Click to expand...
Haha after re-reading this, it came across opposite what I meant.. what I meant was there definitely is no shortage in that department.. ;)
 
ZecAustin said:
This is what I believe. Sex isn't the only way to form a marriage but it is the final, necessary step without which the marriage will not be formed. And if you skip all the other steps and go straight to the sex you have formed a marriage. Prostitutes do become one flesh with their clients. Paul uses the exact same language to describe it as Christ uses when quoting Genesis account of Adam and Eve's one flesh union.

I am very glad to hear how exceptional all of your marriages are. It is a great testament to what results from doing God's things God's way. I have been around church a long time though and I can assure you that your experiences are the exception.

I also am firmly convinced that a proper understanding of sex makes the polygyny argument moot and frames marriage as God intended it.

At any rate, no one should take my big picture, macrotheology and think I was commenting on any individual. I always have a view towards the silent readers who just read individual posts and don't always get the whole story.
Click to expand...
So then is a harlot a polyandrist? (Multiple husbands simultaneously)
 
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