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PM, Age factor

J

jsw

New Member
Hello All,
I am not going to site any verses here. This is a general question that I have been thinking about with regard to plural marriage. I saw a post concerning sister wives and if they should be of close age. What about the men who are to be the husbands? I do believe that men are to lead their families to the Lord and be the "rock" if you will. But, should they also be able to relate to the children they govern?

I see more and more "wiser" gentleman that have a new found belief in plural marriage, which in my opinion is wonderful. But, at a late age should they practice a new setting within a plural marriage to a woman (s) that have young children? As far as being a provider, I can say a yes to that question. But in reality, I do not think a "wiser" man would be able to do the things a younger dad could do that goes along with being a dad; such as: playing ball, chasing, rolling around on the floor, etc.

Could a wiser man be called to plural marriage not to practice plural marriage himself, but to teach younger men about it and to find the truth in the Word? What are your thoughts?

Jenn
 
jsw said:
I do not think a "wiser" man would be able to do the things a younger dad could do that goes along with being a dad; such as: playing ball, chasing, rolling around on the floor, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. While the activities you cited are enjoyable, I don't think they represent the most important aspects of fatherhood. They play a lovely part, yes...but showing love to a child and teaching them life lessons can happen in other ways. My father was a paraplegic and was incapable of doing the things you listed; however, my grandfather did all of those things with us even though he was in his 70's (he kept himself in good physical shape). I also remember my great grandfather who was in his late 80's. Instead of running around with me, he taught me how to make jewelry. Those were priceless memories for me. Ironically, I also know some men in their 40's who can't run around with their kids because they are so out of shape. I'm not seeing this primarily as an age factor.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Fairlight,

I can definitey see what you are saying. Good points! I guess the saying is true, it takes a village to raise a child. :D It was just a thought I had and knew I needed someone to give me the other points of view so I could see what was most important.
 
Hi Jenn,

It seems to me that the age differences should not be so wide that it affects the children's lives in a negative way.

For instance, there is a negative societal stigma to having parents that visually look like grandparents. This can be alleviated by homeschooling, as the school setting is where children have to deal with it the most.

However, when much older man marries a much younger woman, I feel that he is cheating her of a complete marriage to some extent. Men die earlier, and if the man is in his 60s or 70s, and the lady is in her 20s or 30s, she's only going to have him--on average--about another 5-10 years, or if very lucky, maybe 15-20 more years.

The children are cheated as well, having a new "dad" that cannot really play with them physically, may be in a mental decline, and is going to croak before they are adults.

Besides, we know the real reason that old men like young women, despite their denials...

I'm not saying it's a sin or anything, but it is certainly less than ideal.

To give an example, I'm a young 42 and will probably live to be at least 100 (good genes), but I wouldn't be interested in any young woman of 20 or less... :D


John for Christ



jsw said:
Hello All,
I am not going to site any verses here. This is a general question that I have been thinking about with regard to plural marriage. I saw a post concerning sister wives and if they should be of close age. What about the men who are to be the husbands? I do believe that men are to lead their families to the Lord and be the "rock" if you will. But, should they also be able to relate to the children they govern?

I see more and more "wiser" gentleman that have a new found belief in plural marriage, which in my opinion is wonderful. But, at a late age should they practice a new setting within a plural marriage to a woman (s) that have young children? As far as being a provider, I can say a yes to that question. But in reality, I do not think a "wiser" man would be able to do the things a younger dad could do that goes along with being a dad; such as: playing ball, chasing, rolling around on the floor, etc.

Could a wiser man be called to plural marriage not to practice plural marriage himself, but to teach younger men about it and to find the truth in the Word? What are your thoughts?

Jenn
Click to expand...
 
Hi Fairlight,

I have to disagree with you, Fairlight. Being a father and having had a very close father in my life, I know that the thing boys need most is physical male interaction. We need to wrestle and play ball and do other things with our dads that involve the masculine interaction that mothers really cannot supply well.

It's more important, as you said, to show love and teach life lessons to our children, but children need physical contact as well. It's very important to their healthy development.

Now you cited a couple examples which I think are valid. But they represent worst-case solutions to the problem. They are not ideal, but rather are the least that could be done in those situations.

Rather than saying this is not primarily an age factor, it would be more accurate to say that it is not only the age factor that is the issue. The age factor generally is overwhelmingly the reason that older dads can't play with their children as much. Poor physical condition comes second. Disability is one of the rarest issues.

Your dad probably did the best he could, and your grandfather pitched in as a good father would for his son. They sound like wonderful men, and your grandfather was clearly not the average old guy. Not too many people are in good shape in their 60s and 70s and later. Your great-grandfather sounds like a neat person too, with a talent for a craft that a young lady would really enjoy. That is certainly part of what any parent or grandparent should do, find something of value and interest for children to engage in.

So, to summarize, all I'm saying here is that the ideal situation is for a dad to be young enough and in shape enough to play physically with his children (mothers too, but they don't do it as much, even given the opportunity). If the ideal situation isn't available, then whatever comes next is the best one can do.

However, I wouldn't blithely enter into a marriage of vastly different ages without considering these points. Parents ought to consider their children's needs, and shouldn't lightly enter into a marriage that is less than ideal for single mom and kids, unless there is an over-riding reason to do so. I don't think that "love" is always enough. Sometimes it might be, but people should listen for God's advice in every case.


John for Christ



Fairlight said:
jsw said:
I do not think a "wiser" man would be able to do the things a younger dad could do that goes along with being a dad; such as: playing ball, chasing, rolling around on the floor, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. While the activities you cited are enjoyable, I don't think they represent the most important aspects of fatherhood. They play a lovely part, yes...but showing love to a child and teaching them life lessons can happen in other ways. My father was a paraplegic and was incapable of doing the things you listed; however, my grandfather did all of those things with us even though he was in his 70's (he kept himself in good physical shape). I also remember my great grandfather who was in his late 80's. Instead of running around with me, he taught me how to make jewelry. Those were priceless memories for me. Ironically, I also know some men in their 40's who can't run around with their kids because they are so out of shape. I'm not seeing this primarily as an age factor.

Blessings,
Fairlight
Click to expand...
 
(This is talking about being too old. A discussion about age difference should not devolve into an excuse to break the law in being too young.)
Interesting that scripture never seemed to indicate a man that took a wife (plural or not) was too old to start a plural home. Since the scriptural provision for widows should be active in the church and remarriage open, then, the fears of a woman being left high and dry and alone are just fears fed by the none poly arbitrary expert. The odds of a husband and wife dying at the same time around the same age is not likely and not a worthy goal I think most would agree. And, picking a proper age difference is not scriptural. It is remarkable the lack of trust in God, people finally resort to in decision making. If you find God is joining you with someone too old, then nudge God in heaven, (notice I said nudge, God being fairly old himself) and softly remind God that he seems to have overlooked an age difference seemingly too large. I think God is still alive, aware and can guide and act in individual lives, and we should be careful what we rationalize is not actually a refusal to God. Predicting God places your standards upon God, which actually leaves God out.
If one really is leaving God out of it then just consider nature. Nature prevents a mother during or around menopause and a man from being a father much later when he can't....well, I guess when he can't. This seemingly allows for a greater age for the man then the woman. So it is better to consider scripture then nature for widows. Whether you are arguing with God or arguing with the times and nature, there is no point in raising an eyebrow about what other people are doing under the old oak tree.

The logic behind the idea people can be too old to be parents is the same type of logic that says people can be too old to remain alive, too old to receive medical treatment, or too old to have a job. Should all women that find themselves pregnant in their 40's have an abortion because they will be in their 60's and too old to attend college graduation for their unborn? Of course not.

I imperfectly cite Shakespeare.

Juliet: "O Romeo, Romeo! wherefore art thou Romeo?"
Romeo: 'pause.....' speak up louder Juliet baby, I have moved over into the handicapped parking place"

Better quoted Shakespeare.
"Did my heart love till now? Forswear it, sight!/ For I ne'er saw true beauty till this night."
- William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, 1.5

"For you and I are past our dancing days" 1.5
 
John_for_Christ said:
I have to disagree with you, Fairlight. Being a father and having had a very close father in my life, I know that the thing boys need most is physical male interaction. We need to wrestle and play ball and do other things with our dads that involve the masculine interaction that mothers really cannot supply well.
Click to expand...

I understand this but I don't think this is only an "age issue". It's a "is the man healthy and in shape issue". God decided to make Abraham a father when he was in his 90's....long past the average age. Was God wrong ?? All I'm saying is there are other important factors to consider.

welltan said:
The logic behind the idea people can be too old to be parents is the same type of logic that says people can be too old to remain alive, too old to receive medical treatment, or too old to have a job. Should all women that find themselves pregnant in their 40's have an abortion because they will be in their 60's and too old to attend college graduation for their unborn?
Click to expand...

Exactly !!!

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
John_for_Christ said:
I wouldn't be interested in any young woman of 20 or less... :D
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I'm so happy to hear that, John !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Had I known I would live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The only sure thing about this life is that we will all leave it someday. We are not promised even one more heartbeat. (Well, except for Hezekiah, see Isaiah 38:5...)

Age is only one of many things to consider. Some people die young at 94 (like my late grandfather, who first started bowling at age 70) and others die old at 60. IMHO, there are many other factors that are more important. Number one should be the walk that a person has with the Lord. That does not depend on age so much as obedience.

My own father was not athletic, but he was not out of shape. He did things with all of us (I have 5 brothers and 2 sisters) that we all have fond memories of. None of us ever lacked for time with Dad. And I don't remember him ever playing softball or any other sport! That is something I did with my oldest daughter - we played together on the church's co-ed softball team in a church league. My youngest daughter was not interested in sports. But both were in marching band in Hi School, so I had 6 years of band-booster club. My point is that each child is different, and just because dear ole' dad might not be athletic, whether by inclination, old age, or disability, does not mean he can't do something with each and every child, both one-on-one and as a family activity.
 
Just speaking for myself and my husband,

We have no desire (we're both in our early 50's) to be around small children too much. We feel like we've completed our child raising duties and although we love spending time with our grands, we also enjoy being just a couple again. We find when our granddaughters (ages 7,5,3) spend the night with us we get tired a lot faster than we did when our kids were their age, and granddaddy gets grouchy and impatient with them (grandmama is a bit better but they get my goat too).

My grandmother raised my cousins and she was horribly impatient with them most of the time. She was probably around our age when she had to adopt them to be sure they were cared for. She did the job but it wasn't very pretty; She was tired and wanted them to play and be quiet. My cousins were always embarrassed when she came to the school because she was their 'grandmother'. Not that they didn't love her, they just wanted a young mom like the other kids.

I work with a person who is a 'late life baby' and she describes her parents, who are in their early 50's as old folks who never want to do anything.

Just my experiences.
 
Hmmm. How do old geezers who still skip when their dignified wives aren't looking rate? :lol:
 
donnag said:
I work with a person who is a 'late life baby' and she describes her parents, who are in their early 50's as old folks who never want to do anything.

Just my experiences.
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I have a friend whose parents are a little older, plus his grandmother was reaching the menopause (she was very shocked!) when they conceived his father, they both died before my friend was born and so he was deprived of knowing his grandparents which as always saddened him, now that was all unplanned, but its pretty selfish to do it on purpose.

Better to stick with people of around the same age really.

B
 
I met one of my cousins in the store one day (I hardly ever see her around and we don't have anything in common since I'm about 20 years older than she is) and she announced to me that she was preggs. Her youngest kid was in HS at that time and it really upset me. My initial thought was to slap her and yell 'just what were you thinking that night'?.

Now she has a toddler who will essentially be an only child because it's sibblings are many years older than it. Her parents are in their late 60's so I don't see them being around or at least active in the baby's life either. I think it's sad to do that to a kid.
 
PolyDoc said:
My point is that each child is different, and just because dear ole' dad might not be athletic, whether by inclination, old age, or disability, does not mean he can't do something with each and every child, both one-on-one and as a family activity.
Click to expand...

This has also been my experience. :)
My basic belief is we need to seek God's guidance regarding the formation of our families. It's his will for each family that ultimately counts.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
John_for_Christ said:
I'm a young 42 and will probably live to be at least 100 (good genes), but I wouldn't be interested in any young woman of 20 or less...
Click to expand...

OK, I admit this one had me smiling.

Knowing that polygamists are in hot demand and constantly have to fend off approaches from women, young ones in particular; I envisaged a scenario along these lines:

[Setting] At the Friday night Poly Meet and Greet down at your local Baptist Hall

[Young Lady] Why John, I would really like to get to know you, you are so...biblical.

[JFC] Yes nice to meet you too, but before we proceed any further there is one thing I must ask...

[Young Lady] Oh please do. But before you ask, here is a little more about me. I was homeschooled by my Christian parents in a rural area. Next I finished my nursing diploma and since then have been working at the missionary hospital. In the evenings I repair clothes when not cooking for my eleven siblings as my mother is about to give birth to twins. I have obeyed all the commandments since I was a child, and always felt that the Old continued into the New. What was it that you wanted to ask?

[JFC] Well that is the problem, I get enquiries from your type all the time, but I must know, how old are you?

[Young Lady] I am twenty, but working real hard on getting older

[JFC] Sorry. Next!

ylop
 
ylop said:
John_for_Christ said:
I'm a young 42 and will probably live to be at least 100 (good genes), but I wouldn't be interested in any young woman of 20 or less...
Click to expand...

OK, I admit this one had me smiling.

Knowing that polygamists are in hot demand and constantly have to fend off approaches from women, young ones in particular; I envisaged a scenario along these lines:

[Setting] At the Friday night Poly Meet and Greet down at your local Baptist Hall

[Young Lady] Why John, I would really like to get to know you, you are so...biblical.

[JFC] Yes nice to meet you too, but before we proceed any further there is one thing I must ask...

[Young Lady] Oh please do. But before you ask, here is a little more about me. I was homeschooled by my Christian parents in a rural area. Next I finished my nursing diploma and since then have been working at the missionary hospital. In the evenings I repair clothes when not cooking for my eleven siblings as my mother is about to give birth to twins. I have obeyed all the commandments since I was a child, and always felt that the Old continued into the New. What was it that you wanted to ask?

[JFC] Well that is the problem, I get enquiries from your type all the time, but I must know, how old are you?

[Young Lady] I am twenty, but working real hard on getting older

[JFC] Sorry. Next!

ylop
Click to expand...


It's so hard to have teenage girls throwing themselves at you all the time I guess..... :twisted:

B
 
Okay I am the second wife and the husband is 42. I am 27 that is a 16 yr age difference. He has more energy than most 20 yr olds and He is very active and a great dad. I believe age really is not as big a factor as having a man who is willing to support his family and follow what he believes in.

Liz
 
All,
I did not ask this question to hurt anyone's feelings, I was sincere in asking. I was more looking at ages 55 or older, not that makes that age group "old". I know everyone's situation is different, but for me, my boys are very active and yearn to have male physical companionship. I think that a few people's insight (on both sides) has been very helpful in making my thoughts on the subject a bit clearer. And the one statement I saw about not doing it on purpose was a good one for me to hear. But also that God does have a plan for me and He will show me, if and when a family comes along, what the right decision is for me to make. That could also mean that I stayed married to the husband I am "legally" married to.
 
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