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Meat Patriarchal Servanthood or Patriarchal Leadership

steve

steve

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Just throwing this out there for discussion.

What I have seen taught about servanthood seems very emasculating.
Change my mind.

ok, ok, just stated for effect.
 
Why is there a separation between patriarchal serventhood and patriarchal leadership? It seems to me the God of Creation demands, requests, expects, hopes in us following His lead. So who is actually in control, the one who serves through the power of Christ or the one being served?

Is this a commandment or a suggestion?

John 13:14
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; you also ought to wash one another's feet.

The good Sumaratian also fits.

Luke 10:25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ c ; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ d ”

28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two denarii e and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
 
I think the difference is, one's will to serve others is in contrast to thier will to be served. When those get out of order, particularly in patriarchy, is when problems arise.

If I help you because that's what you expect then I do you, and I, a disservice. But if I help you because I believe my help will bring us both to a higher call, then who is actually leading who?
 
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Patriarchy: woman serves the man
Matriarchy: man serves the woman
Christianity: woman serves the man, the man serves God

Put differently, men serve by leading.

So called servant leadership is in practice getting men to serve their wives and become ok with having her in charge.
 
steve said:
Just throwing this out there for discussion.

What I have seen taught about servanthood seems very emasculating.
Change my mind.

ok, ok, just stated for effect.
Click to expand...
It depends on who your master is. If you are taking care of something your master has entrusted you with, are you a servant to the cared for, or a servant to your master?

When you conflate the two, yes it can seem emasculating to be a servant to somebody’s servant.
 
'Masculinity' is a multifaceted thing that has millions of different shades and nuances. We can describe in generalities, but how it actually works will vary widely from personality to personality.

I tend to watch a couple and their interactions for a bit before passing judgment. I know some very 'masculine' alpha males that are quite domineering and lead with little appearance of 'service' and I know some solid men leading their wives and family with gentle servanthood and example.... there is not a one size fits all, but there is always a leader. In a patriarchy, the man will lead. Maybe overtly and maybe in a quieter less directive manner, though never by manipulation or fear.

The best leaders will learn early to modulate their inputs, whether example or directive, to suit the situation and personalities involved. I love my children equally though I deal with them differently as individuals and adjust my approach as needed when dealing with them corporately.

So, I'm not sure it is either/or... it is as needed for desired effect. Desired effect should be to please Messiah and model Him to the family thus drawing them closer to Messiah.
 
It comes down to authority. Who has it and who doesn't. Who gets the final say? Who has to convince whom? Whose permission must be sought? Which can contradict the other? Who tiptoes around whom?
 
rockfox said:
It comes down to authority. Who has it and who doesn't. Who gets the final say? Who has to convince whom? Whose permission must be sought? Which can contradict the other? Who tiptoes around whom?
Click to expand...

The Fox can preach! ... and when he does, it rocks!:cool:
 
It’s not a question of whether or not service is involved in good leadership, of course it is.
Where I see it becoming unbalanced is when the quality of leadership seems to judged by the level of service provided. The idea that the more he kowtows to her felt needs, the better of a husband he obviously is.
 
steve said:
The idea that the more he kowtows to her felt needs, the better of a husband he obviously is.
Click to expand...

Ya that's little more than putting the husband in subjection to the emotional whims of the woman. It is to make him like reed blowing in the wind. It won't make her happy or him a leader.
 
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