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Men without women

sun

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I want to know is there a 100% correlation between heterosexual fidelity and cultural development? The author says that monogamy was the reason for the success of past civilizations that he studied. This sounds like an indictment of polygamy. I also want to know what do you guys make of the criticisms by some people that polygamy could leave many men without a wife and the men will turn to violence? They usually cite the Middle East as an example where polygamy is legal.

Another criticism is that countries where polygamy is tolerated are usually poor; for instance, Middle East and Africa.

https://relampagofurioso.com/2016/05/30 ... omens-lib/
 
First article:
I want to know is there a 100% correlation between heterosexual fidelity and cultural development? The author says that monogamy was the reason for the success of past civilizations that he studied. This sounds like an indictment of polygamy.
I don't think he said monogamy was the cause of success, rather fidelity. Fidelity means sexual faithfulness. You can have complete fidelity within polygamy. If the wives only ever sleep with their husband, and he only ever sleeps with his wives, that is sexual fidelity. It is promiscuity that he points out as destroying cultures.

He is a bit sloppy with his terminology though as he is writing from a post-Christian western mindset, for instance he says "the world’s three major religions ... have been structured around the ideals of monogamy and sexual restraint". Which is nonsense, since Islam is obviously not built around monogamy, and Judaism has only required monogamy for about a thousand years and not in all branches of it, and that was only introduced to avoid persecution by Christians. It is only Christianity that has promoted monogamy. The point he is really making is that all three religions stress "sexual restraint" in various ways, which is true. In other words, fidelity. Which brings us back to the fact that it is fidelity that matters, not monogamy.
I also want to know what do you guys make of the criticisms by some people that polygamy could leave many men without a wife and the men will turn to violence? They usually cite the Middle East as an example where polygamy is legal.
The Middle East is violent because it's full of Muslims, and Islam is fundamentally violent. Any suggestion that this is due to polygamy is simply a PC way of ignoring the obvious.

Remember that just because a society is polygamous doesn't mean that the majority of men have multiple wives. Statistically, most men will always be monogamous. A polygamous society is one that accepts polygamy as an option, that is all. Now if you look at census data for any normal country, except those that kill off baby girls through sex-selective abortion (e.g. China), you'll find that there are more women of marriageable age than men. With monogamy, there will always be more single women than men. And that's what we see around us - a society of single mothers, used and thrown away by useless men to move on to their new "monogamous" bit of fun, before they abandon her also. In a polygamous society, every one of these women has the opportunity to marry a decent man.

Polygamy matches the statistics far better than monogamy does, because polygamy allows everyone to marry and be happy, while monogamy does not and leaves some lonely.
Another criticism is that countries where polygamy is tolerated are usually poor; for instance, Middle East and Africa.
Correlation does not equal causation. Israel in the time of Solomon was polygamous. China used to be polygamous, back when they had massive wealthy dynasties and ruled much of Asia they were polygamous. On the other hand, the Romans were monogamous and also rich and ruled a vast empire at the time of Christ, while the British Empire was likewise monogamous. It's got nothing to do with monogamy or polygamy. We're just living at a moment in time when the monogamous countries happen to be wealthier, that doesn't mean it's normal.
 
Second article:

In our "monogamous" society, the wealthy people do end up with multiple women. Secret affairs, open complex relationships, serial monogamy - just think what scandals wealthy celebrities get up to. Wealthy people are not all monogamous, many do take multiple women. Widely-accepted polygamy would just allow them to do this in a more honourable fashion.

Prostitution is higher in polygamous countries simply because, as the previous article pointed out, these countries are often poor (at this point in history). Poor countries have more women who are poor, who have no way of putting food on the table, who have to resort to anything to do so - and end up being forced into prostitution. Again, correlation is not necessarily causation.

While prostitution is declining in the West due to promiscuity. Here prostitution is legal, and there have actually been news articles about how prostitutes are having to lower their chargeout rates because of Tinder and similar hook-up services, which let people have casual sex without needing prostitutes!
 
I don't know if you have ever heard of Bob Enyart. He is a fundamentalist talk show host in Colorado who denounces polygamy. I would like people's critique of his article here. http://kgov.com/what-does-the-bible-say-about-polygamy.

http://huntergatherer.com/good-reasons- ... -bad-idea/





Second, more women in poly marriages mean more unattached men. Societies with more unattached men experience more violence, crime, and even more war. A society with a whole bunch of single guys with no prospects will self destruct at some point.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/relation ... z4Ax3HQXlz
 
Sun, what did you think of my comments on your previous articles, were they at all helpful to you?

Accepting polygamy as an option for some does not in any way imply that the majority of men should be polygamous. As I have already stated, we currently have an excess of single women with no prospects. The option of polygamy can even this up and allow everyone to marry.

The society with the most single men with no prospect of marriage is monogamous China - due to sex-selective abortion as a result of their one child policy. There is a strong risk that this could occur in the West too. That's a far more realistic threat than a hypothetical concern about polygamy somehow becoming so popular in societies that currently consider it evil, that it can alter the demographics of those societies.
 
OK, thank you. You have made your points well. I was just wondering what your comments are regarding Bob Enyart's article?
 
In his New Testament section, Bob Enyart falsely bases his assumptions on the old King James phrase "husband of but one wife". Although he quotes this phrase as "husband of one wife", he assumes it means "husband of but one wife", ie "husband of no more than one wife", and never justifies that assumption just takes it as given. But that isn't what the Greek actually says. In reality, the Greek simply states that he must have a wife (the word for "one" is not exclusive, it can actually just mean "first", ie he must still have his first wife and have not divorced her even if he has married others). There is a massive depth of thought to put into the correct interpretation of this phrase. But Bob completely ignores all such scholarship, runs with the old assumption written into the text in the KJV, then talks at massive length on it - but all his discussion is wrong if his basic assumption is wrong.

In his Old Testament section, Bob again makes his own assumption - that YHWH's original plan was monogamy - and then goes to great lengths explaining various Old Testament passages in the light of his assumption. But his assumption itself is highly debatable. So once again, there is no depth to this study, only many words built on a faulty assumption.

I would encourage you to read my own booklet "Marriage: from the Bible alone". This goes into the actual text a lot more carefully than Bob does, and I try to make as few assumptions as possible but simply say what scripture says.

Also go to the "Resources" menu at the top right of this page, and select "Common Misconceptions". You will find that most of the points made by teachers such as Bob Enyart have already been well covered there.
 
Speaking for myself, you are not going to get any discussion from me about what different peoples objections are.
Being expected to jump through hoops just because someone somewhere has an opinion just seems like such a waste of energy when there is an incredible depth of teaching on this site.
Immerse yourself in the back discussions, you will find answers to questions that you haven't been thought of asking.
 
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