Love Triangles and Polygamy

[rockfox]

I posted an image I made to the meme thread a while back...

I was thinking about this the other day and I'm wondering now if this is actually an ineffective meme. Not just ineffective, but counterproductive. Let me explain.

When I made this I was thinking about the heartache and loss experienced by those who loose out. We're all familiar with love triangles. If we haven't seen them or experienced them in our lives we've seen them in movies or read them in stories. It is a very common trope, a staple of romance stories. And what could be better than a happy ending where all the women get the man?

Well, what is better is being the woman who defeats the other woman to get him for herself. The woman who proves herself to be superior in beauty and romance. The woman who is so good he'll choose her over the other woman.

Why do I say that? Because people LIKE to read or watch stories about love triangles. In other words, they are desirable. If they weren't, they wouldn't be so ubiquitous in romance stories. When we watch/read one of these stories we are living vicariously through the eyes of the protagonist. For the woman, she wants to be that object of desire that win's the man's heart. She desires to be the better woman, the victor, the chosen one. And the contest produces the that drama that many feed off of.

And so my meme might actually be ineffective. Maybe deep down women don't want my version of the happy ending. They want to vanquish other women in the battle for mates.

So how do I fix this meme?

I think this also explains some of the dynamic behind women's reluctance to embrace polygamy; both in society and on the part of first wives. When you bring up polygamy you're not adding love, you're creating a new love triangle and opening the field for someone else to defeat her. Hence why women often feel like it means they're not good enough anymore or like they're going to be replaced.

So how do we route around this? Realizing that women prefer to be the victor of a love triangle over sharing him how do we undermine that dynamic?

Or did I get this wrong. Were you secretly thinking that you really wish you could both just have him but since you couldn't you chose fight for him? I'd love to be wrong about this.

Or am I right, but got the motivations wrong? What other motives could there be in the appeal of love triangles in fiction? Knowing this could help us tailor our message better.

 

[Mage]

I always viewed love triangles with a winner and a loser as a byproduct of a monogamy-only society. In a polygamous society how would these stories be viewed? My guess would be as an unloving abandonment of one of the women.

 

[steve]

Triangle just doesn’t taste right. It doesn’t sound inclusive
Think triangulation.

So yeah, the meme just doesn’t scream family to me.

 

[rockfox]

I always viewed love triangles with a winner and a loser as a byproduct of a monogamy-only society. In a polygamous society how would these stories be viewed? My guess would be as an unloving abandonment of one of the women.

That could be. And yet, our situation is trying to convince a monogamous one. But I'm more thinking about the base biological instincts, the things below culture. Or the deeper truths we need to illuminate to put the lie to monogamy only.

 

[Mage]

Good point.

Since we're trying to reach out to the MO society around us would someone from a MO society view both woman getting the man as both women losing or both compromising instead of both winning?

I think there are still plenty out in society the would view this [edit: meme] as a good thing. Possibly even reaching those that were the ones that didn't get the guy in the end. Letting them know that it didn't have to be that way.

 

[Cap]

I posted an image I made to the meme thread a while back...

I was thinking about this the other day and I'm wondering now if this is actually an ineffective meme. Not just ineffective, but counterproductive. Let me explain.

When I made this I was thinking about the heartache and loss experienced by those who loose out. We're all familiar with love triangles. If we haven't seen them or experienced them in our lives we've seen them in movies or read them in stories. It is a very common trope, a staple of romance stories. And what could be better than a happy ending where all the women get the man?

Well, what is better is being the woman who defeats the other woman to get him for herself. The woman who proves herself to be superior in beauty and romance. The woman who is so good he'll choose her over the other woman.

Why do I say that? Because people LIKE to read or watch stories about love triangles. In other words, they are desirable. If they weren't, they wouldn't be so ubiquitous in romance stories. When we watch/read one of these stories we are living vicariously through the eyes of the protagonist. For the woman, she wants to be that object of desire that win's the man's heart. She desires to be the better woman, the victor, the chosen one. And the contest produces the that drama that many feed off of.

And so my meme might actually be ineffective. Maybe deep down women don't want my version of the happy ending. They want to vanquish other women in the battle for mates.

So how do I fix this meme?

I think this also explains some of the dynamic behind women's reluctance to embrace polygamy; both in society and on the part of first wives. When you bring up polygamy you're not adding love, you're creating a new love triangle and opening the field for someone else to defeat her. Hence why women often feel like it means they're not good enough anymore or like they're going to be replaced.

So how do we route around this? Realizing that women prefer to be the victor of a love triangle over sharing him how do we undermine that dynamic?

Or did I get this wrong. Were you secretly thinking that you really wish you could both just have him but since you couldn't you chose fight for him? I'd love to be wrong about this.

Or am I right, but got the motivations wrong? What other motives could there be in the appeal of love triangles in fiction? Knowing this could help us tailor our message better.

Your whole idea of women are wrong and create this triangle, I think is more from your ingrained thought about the evils of women. What about the men who don't understood PM and destroy families because their lustful desires overpower biblical thinking? They don't realize there is another way.

 

[Cap]

Can you imagine if this guy understood PM. I don't think this one is woman induced.

https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-140b-divorce-what-you-need-to-know/

 

[FollowingHim]

Love triangle stories are attractive to men, not just women - because every man likes the idea of having two women falling over each other trying to get his attention. Men are naturally polygamous. The fact he only ends up with one in the end is an artificial monogamy-culture-induced twist at the end, but the basic storyline is a natural and attractive search for polygamy.

And I agree with @Cap in that you misunderstand women through this entire analysis.

I don't think women enjoy it because the other woman lost out, rather they enjoy it because the woman got the man. It's simple. Even against great odds (external circumstances including another woman being interested), they got to live together happily ever after. Just what everyone wants. The fact that another woman lost out is a side-note that is ignored, she's thrown away as a trashbag, just as society does with women in such circumstances. But the attraction is not her defeat, it's the successful woman's love story. The unsuccessful woman is just part of the scenery.

If women could clarify though that would be helpful!

 

[Mage]

If women could clarify though that would be helpful!

I agree without clarification from women all we men can do is speculate.

 

[FollowingHim2]

Maybe deep down women don't want my version of the happy ending. They want to vanquish other women in the battle for mates.

No. That's what men want. They want to vanquish other men to get the girl.

Women want to be chosen. It's about being enough. It's about that innately human need of being chosen to be loved, of being amazingly lovable above all others. He could have had anyone, but he chose me.

It's not just love triangles that are popular, it's stories where the man and woman have drama before finally coming together. Perhaps he is a prince and his family don't like her because she's a commoner, yet in the end he still chooses her. No other women involved, but drama all the same.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the meme. I think it makes a good point. More women do need to be thinking about this.

 

[KatyBeth]

Or did I get this wrong. Were you secretly thinking that you really wish you could both just have him but since you couldn't you chose fight for him? I'd love to be wrong about this.

As others have said, I think this view is wrong first in its understanding of women and our motivations. Also, this whole idea presupposes the idea that polygamy is acceptable to (or even considered by) the women involved.

I have no desire to “defeat” another woman and “win” the man, and never have. I don’t worry about another woman coming into my marriage and “defeating” me. If plural relationships were an acceptable option, I certainly would have chosen that route instead of losing friends when he ultimately chose me over them.

 

[Phillip]

The MEME makes me think about the reality shows. The shows where the guy has money and has to pick one girl out of 7 or so. The shows are designed to be controversial for the sake of the viewer. (Shock TV) but never intentioned to be a BF family round up. Probably NOT the kind of woman you want to introduce to mama. Lol

 

[PeteR]

The MEME makes me think about the reality shows. The shows where the guy has money and has to pick one girl out of 7 or so. The shows are designed to be controversial for the sake of the viewer. (Shock TV) but never intentioned to be a BF family round up. Probably NOT the kind of woman you want to introduce to mama. Lol

One of those shows needs a twist.... the guy needs to reveal poly about a third of the way in and then pick two or three.... talk about ratings and fireworks!

 

[Phillip]

One of those shows needs a twist.... the guy needs to reveal poly about a third of the way in and then pick two or three.... talk about ratings and fireworks!

There is a new TV show called ‘Manifest’. It is about an airliner that was sent 5 1/2 years forward in time. One of the sub plots is about a woman who had been asked to marry a fellow police officer/boyfriend prior to the airliner going thru time. When she arrives 5 1/2 years into the future, this boyfriend has married her best friend. The man loves his wife but still loves the girl he had asked to marry him 5 1/2 years earlier. The man is confused, the girl still loves him and his wife has no clue.

As I see it, there’s no problem. He now has two wives. Both relationships have been consummated. If they would throw that curve ball into the story line (controversial) it would cause the viewers to talk.

Just a thought.

 

[rockfox]

Your whole idea of women are wrong and create this triangle, I think is more from your ingrained thought about the evils of women.

No, that's just your overreaction to my being willing to speak truths unflattering to women. This whole post came from one key insight: stories based on love triangles are popular. People like them.

The question is: why and how can we apply that to efforts to advance BM.

I wasn't exactly happy about this, I rather liked my meme and if the OP is accurate, our job advancing BM will be a lot harder. But I don't have a knee jerk reaction to shy away from uncomfortable truths.

I don't think women enjoy it because the other woman lost out, rather they enjoy it because the woman got the man. It's simple. Even against great odds (external circumstances including another woman being interested), they got to live together happily ever after. Just what everyone wants. The fact that another woman lost out is a side-note that is ignored, she's thrown away as a trashbag, just as society does with women in such circumstances. But the attraction is not her defeat, it's the successful woman's love story. The unsuccessful woman is just part of the scenery.

This could be it. Unfortunately that also speaks to a selfish perspective that doesn't consider the other.

 

[rockfox]

No. That's what men want. They want to vanquish other men to get the girl.

Ya I had an inkling that might be the case.

And yet, it's not unheard of for a woman to go to great lengths to destroy another women just because they are lower in the hierarchy. Not just to win in competition for a man, but to utterly destroy them, even unto death.

It doesn't fit the unicorns and rainbows view of women, but it happens and a lot more than people realize. Let's be real here, women are infamous for their use of backbiting and gossip to advance their position in the female hierarchy. So I don't think women are above vicious competition for men at all.

But is that why they find love triangle stories so entertaining? I'm not certain.

Women want to be chosen. It's about being enough. It's about that innately human need of being chosen to be loved, of being amazingly lovable above all others. He could have had anyone, but he chose me.

True. But that could also be about different personalities in women though.

I watched one love triangle play out where the fallout looked a lot more like competition, not just wanting to be chosen. The reaction of the looser was to sever the friendship (they were best friends) and put great effort into damaging the winner's reputation. Pure, needless, vindictive, uncalled for revenge. If it was just about being chosen you'd think a friend would be happy for the other friend and support them. But no.

The ironic part is the winner had abstained from competing for the guy until she found out he wasn't interested in her friend anymore. That was honorable; the reaction was uncalled for.

 

[Cap]

Let's be real here, women are infamous for their use of backbiting and gossip to advance their position in the female hierarchy.
.

Men do exactly the same thing. You ever work in the corporate world with corporate politics. A nasty place can be created by men towards each other.

 

[cnystrom]

I do not know how many times I have seen the love triangle in literature and said to myself, "Polygamy would fix this."

I think is a love triangle is niether bad, nor good in itself. The factor that makes the difference is competition and the thought that it is a zero sum game and you have to have a winner and a loser.

The beauty of polygamy is that it opens up another option, another possibility. That of cooperation and the three of you with goodwill working together to build something even greater and better than what only two of you could do.

Even in polygamy circles it is rare for a man to date two women at once. However Joe Darger in the book "Love Times Three" relates how as a young man he was dating two women and found himself in a love triangle and having trouble deciding between the two of them, when his mother suggested that he might rather pick both, so he did.

I actually really like the original meme as is.

 

[cnystrom]

I actually really like the original meme as is.

Except of course for the obvious error that it is four instead of three.

Is four a love square?

 

[rockfox]

Men do exactly the same thing. You ever work in the corporate world with corporate politics. A nasty place can be created by men towards each other.

That is a really good point. As I was thinking about this thread over the last I realized this is a consequence of hierarchical competition. Workplaces, social media, schools; anywhere there is place for social competition we see this.

I see this in livestock all the time: they have a social hierarchy and are not adverse to violence to establish, maintain, or advance their place in it. Much like with humans in a school setting, the animal at the bottom of the hierarchy will be continually picked on. Ironically, it is those at the top which least partake.

But in the human hierarchy it is those women at the top who have the most to loose and who also set the standard for what is socially acceptable; which works against us.

When it comes to a love triangle, it is hard to lay down arms in that competition.

But I think the meme is still good even if flawed, as it let's people know there is another option.