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Is Polygamy Demeaning to Women?

This topic (not just the post per se, of course, since it is actually on the right track) gets CLOSE to what I think is a central point about opposition to Biblical patriarchy. (And I use that term deliberately, just to make sure that it is understood to include NOT only plural marriage, but Authority and headship in the most correct Biblical sense.)

When people (whether they realize it or not, of course - since that is the ESSENCE of "believing the lie") accept such arguments, what they are unconsciously doing is "calling good evil, and evil, good".

Is it "demeaning" to be subservient to Him? Is it "demeaning" to submit to His Authority?

You bet it is! At least, that is how the Adversary saw it! That was Satan's whole objection, and the climax of the Original Lie.

IF you believe that "you can be like God", then ANY position except EQUAL to Him is "demeaning". This is the essence of witchcraft, the "divine feminine", the "craft", goddess worship, and most of the pagan tradition that has been planted like tares within "Christianity". Like it or not, it is the spirit of Jezebel, and the hidden face of "feminism", as 'the world' now uses those words.

It is ultimately about only one thing: rejection of His Word, and thus His Authority to have Written it.

(To even point this out, of course, is politically-incorrect, and rapidly becoming a Hate Crime, as the last of the First Amendment is composted after having been shredded to in consequence.)
 
Amen to that Freebird, couldn't have said it better myself! Now watch, I'm gonna end up with someone telling me that I have issues with being "A good Submissive Christian Woman," and that I may be a closet feminist at heart for agreeing with your very True statements! :lol: Take care & Keep on Keepin on with Yeshua, family & friends.

FOR HIS GLORY ALONE!
Faithful (not perfect) Servant ;)
 
I realize this is a potentially "contentious" or "hot" topic, both Freebird and Faithful Servant, but please read carefully just so there is no misunderstanding (since I get the feeling there already was ;) ).

(And to the extent that "so can monogamy" be "demeaning to women", I agree. Not only do I agree, but would argue even more so: when Monogamy -- or anything, for that matter -- becomes an Idol, there can be no other result. Except, of course, that it is demeaning to ALL who do it!)

I will suggest to both of you that the complaints you raise in EVERY SINGLE CASE have far more to do with "traditions" or with "doctrines" (or I might even call 'em "lies"!) that have been "added to" and "subtracted from" His Word than what is actually Written!

Please take another look at your list of items that can rightfully be called "abuse" above, Freebird. While there is no argument that they happen, and happen in places that may CLAIM some label or other, the truth is something else. The word that our Savior used for them translates as "Hypocrites!" in English.

My point remains, at least in part, to look beyond the labels -- because they are used by the Deceiver for that very purpose. (In particular, look at what has been done to BOTH the word "patriarchy" and the word "feminism"! It is the baggage that has been attached to those words that causes the dissension, because we live in a society that honors labels while ignoring His Word.)

It is important to recognize that when He said "by your tradition you have made the commandments of God of no effect," that applies to how we label things -- whether we recognize the trick or not. (It's part of the reason I prefer going back to the original Hebrew whenever possible, and it is perhaps what I did not make clear enough in the post above.)

We fight an uphill battle not only in the attempt to teach others about "marriage", as God ordained it, but SO much else that is related, because we allow the use of words to do what Scripture so rightly forbids:

to "add to" and "subtract from" His Word.


Blessings,
Mark
 
I thought this response to fear mongering of EagleForum was absolutely excellent! There are many things that EagleForum does that I truly agree with, but what Phylis wrote about polygamy being demeaning to women was nothing more than spouting popular opinion.
 
Actually, as I read it, the topic isn't whether polygamy is demeaning to women. It is that any society where polygamy is demeaning to women is actually a place where any status is demeaning to women. Any society that encourages men to demean women in a polygamous relationship will also encourage the same in a monogamous relationship.

So look at the FLDS which is one of the places that we all think "those poor women!" But if those poor women are treated that way in polygamous relationships then they are likewise that way in monogamy. And likewise they are that way in singularity and in widowhood. It is not the form/existence of a marriage that is demeaning it is the society that allows any female to be demeaned.

I think that there are certain cultures that are demeaning to women. I think polygamy done well can actually show that women are valuable. Face it, if two or more of us were to gang up on the men on this board, we would be a fierce alliance and the men would think twice about treating us with disrespect, as long as we were submissive. LOL.

SweetLissa
 
Greetings Again Brothers & Sisters in Christ,

I must once again say that I agree with both Nikki and Sweetlissa's post on this particular topic. Yes with all due respect Mark, I do understand where you're coming from. To an extent I even agree with you. However, I also take issue with so called men of God that take their positions in life as an excuse to be evil, controlling & demeaning dictators while stamping a cross & dove on it. Which is the very act of "adding to Yeshuas Holy words & instructions to us," as Mark mentioned! ;)

I take issue with both the traditions of men, and those who add to God's words, weather in mono or plural marriages. I am a work in progress, as we all are. And in this process, I'm doing my best to surrender more of myself to Yeshua's perfect will for my life. Which includes learning to strive for true Godly balanced wisdom in my life. All the while applying all of Yeshua's complete and perfect will for me, & trying my best in Yeshua's might & power to bless my dh with True Balanced/Biblical Submission! :)

I have no desire to try to thwart Yeshua's plans for our marriage/family, or whatever call He may place on our families life at any given season. My dh also appreciates that Yeshua has gifted/blessed me with creative intelligence, and appreciates when I share this God-given wisdom & giftings with him and the world around us. My dh seeks my advice, dreams, fears, concerns, joy, ideas, etc. He is also enjoying the blessing of True-balanced/Godly Submission, that I've been doing my best to gift him with. He tells me that with this new found blessing of the lost art of submission, that he does not expect me to check my brains, hopes & dreams at the door of our home and become his personal slave either. Thus in doing so, would be adding to Yeshua's Holy will for healthy marriages and would be a demeaning way of life.

Well thats about my 50cents worth or more, and that's All Folks! :lol: Take care & continue to Lean on, Trust in and be Encouraged in Yeshua daily.

Warm Wishes,
FOR HIS GLORY ALONE!
F.S. :)
 
Hmmm, I guess I'm out of the BF "loop" in that I don't know of any poly husbands who would act this way or who have acted this way in the past. I surely don't want to look to television or popular culture on which to base my opinion of Christian husbands, poly or not, I'd rather actually know who these dictatorial, manipulative men were so I can steer clear of them (or perhaps pray for them).

There are terrible, heavy-handed, condemning husbands, just like there are overbearing, dominating wives. I must say I find it interesting that the men on this board don't come out with both guns drawn when there is mention of an overbearing, unsubmissive, dominatrix.

I think that the ultimate issue is trust. Do we as women truly trust our husbands, and even more so, do we trust our Heavenly Father that sovereignly put our husband in authority over us? If we do trust our husband, and he is a true son of God, then we know that our husband will (for the most part) treat us with respect and honor as the Lord commanded. I can tell you from personal experience that one of the biggest obstacles to true Godly submission is trust. The other obstacle is selfishness, at least it was for me! I'm so very thankful that I learned to trust my husband completely, and he's never let me down!

The constant comments (tea, anyone?) about these heavy-handed, angry, abusive men are hard to balance with reality when I'm just not seeing it in true Christian husbands. I'm quite sure these men exist, but can we say they are truly Christians if they are really treating their wives as badly as some of the posts described? If they aren't Christians, then it really doesn't matter what religious symbol they mark their behavior with, because the sign of a true believer is his desire to be like Christ, not a cross or dove.

So, now we've come full circle. These men that we're decrying because of their demeaning, hyper-controlling behavior towards their wives don't really even warrant discussion, because they don't show evidence of being true Christians. So, just as we'd look sadly past the deadbeat husband watching TV all day, or the money-driven businessman who doesn't care about his family, we must treat these "pretend Christian" men the same way, because they fall into the same category as all the others, that is, unregenerate men who don't know the love of God and don't share it with their wives.
 
Deut30,

As always, good to see you hear. Thanks for sharing your insightful thoughts, as I do respect you and your position. I do also agree with most of your shared thoughts on this particular topic. However with all due respect, I do fully & completely trust my Savior Yeshua & my husband, although we All can go through selfish seasons in our lives - both women & men! I don't fully believe that these two factors - trust or selfishness alone, are at the core of what some of us here - both men & women have been discussing and have been in agreement about.

Just because you personally aren't aware of or don't know any such men yourself, does not mean that they aren't real or a real issue to be concerned about either. I do know of plenty of husbands of very dear friends of mine who had these very real experiences in their life. Maybe these dear friends & sisters in Christ weren't fully aware of or acting upon Godly wisdom when marrying some of these men in the first place, however their hearts & motives were in the right place. As they stepped out in faith & trust in both Yeshua and these so-called men of God, it was the men who deceived these lovely ladies in Christ and gave them reason not to trust them. And in these men acting in their own selfishness & deception they ended up greaving the Holy Spirit and their wives hearts in the process. And no we shouldn't stamp any labels or sayings or otherwise upon our lives or any of our actions that we choose to take. But allot of men whom have claimed to be in Christ, have done just that! It takes two people or more working together, to have a marriage & two people or more ;) to have a problem. It's usually a combination of all involved with all the issues that each can bring to the table.

I also do my best not to put my focus on the media or secular self help books or modern PC lukewarm churches & their traditions or advice. Again I do put my focus & my trust in the Lord and my dh. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that some of these poor ladies in Christ, whom are our Sisters in the Lord, have had to deal with these heart wrenching destructive marriages. And many right in our own Christian communities, circle of friends. Maybe they're not perfect Submissive women of God, and yes they may have trust issues, as none of us are perfect & if we're all honest here - we all have trust issues at different seasons of our lives. But again, that doesn't take away from the very real truth that these destructive marriages take place.

There have been many as of late, shared testimonies from men here who have stepped out to share their hearts in these very areas, and have admitted to the truth that there have been men of God whom have abused their positions as the spiritual head of their homes. They have shared their own mistakes as Christian men, that they've made with their wives that were hurtful and somewhat destructive to the 1st wife of their youth. These men have respectfully and compassionately encouraged and challenged other men of God to not travel down these same destructive paths in their marriages. Just because people are Christian, doesn't mean that they don't fall into temptation or sinful/destructive behaviors. We're all sinners until the day we die. So no, it isn't true that all these men are not truly in Christ to begin with, & yes we should concern ourselves as the family of God with these very issues! Some are in Christ, but are just miss-guided or not fully surrendered. And some men are not in Christ with a true Godly genuine conversion & are fooling themselves and their wives in the process. But it's especially more hurtful when sisters in Christ have been deceived by their husbands who used their position in their marriage/home to be demeaning, destructive or abusive, while claiming that they are in Christ.

Again most of us are fully aware that these situations are very real and happen off & on at any given season. As a child of God, I feel a responsibility to reach out to my sisters in Christ who have experienced these very real destructive and hurtful events in their lives. To love my neighbor as myself, while offering a hand up in Christ, and not just a hand out of Holier than thou condemnation & lectures. I myself nor some of the other sisters in Christ here, have proclaimed that this particular issue happens all the time with all men. Nor have we claimed to be perfect or without trust & selfishness issues in our own lives. As that will always be an issue for all (both men & women) to deal with and give up to the foot of the cross for Yeshua to deal with and refine us in these areas during our lifetime.

Just as you probably don't like the idea of supposed "men/husband bashing," (which is wrong & does take place) - there are many sisters in Christ that are sick of "Women/wife bashing as well," putting all of the responsibility & blame on all women all the time either! It takes everyone weather in a mono or plural family, working together united in Christ, while seeking His will & giving up their own to make a marriage and family work for the Glory of God. Everyone can bring their own baggage and issues to the table at times. As it is usually a combination of these factors, sometimes one individual can be more of the cause of a particular problem than the other individuals. And sometimes in life, so-called or miss guided or lost men of God can & do destruct their own marriages that they've been blessed with in the process. Nothing more nothing less, but none the less- are very real issues that need to be addressed! Doing so while speaking the Truth in Love, and coming up along side one another as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Not saying that it's always just the woman's/wife's fault by having trust or selfishness issues as the whole or core problem with every marital issue. Both men & women are held accountable to one another in this life, and before the throne of God on judgment day. Men are held accountable for how they lead & guide their families. For the actions they chose to take to either serve, guide, lead, love and protect their families that Yeshua blessed them with, or how they may have fallen into their own selfishness and chose to destruct the very families that Yeshua blessed them with. Again just to wrap this up, I don't think that any of us here (both men & women), have claimed that this particular issue happens all the time or that it's just the man's fault. No we women don't use men as a scape goat all the time either. But none the less, these sad destructive marriages have and do take place from time to time. It's our job as Christians to come up along side to both our brothers & sisters in Christ and offer them a hand up. Therefore there is no condemnation for those of us who Are in Christ Jesus. There is however a Healthy/Godly dose of Conviction for both brothers & sisters in Christ! ;) Take care all and Keep on Keepin on with Yeshua, family & friends. Going forth in His Holy Name, being a blessing to others and being blessed in return according to the motives of our hearts. :)

Warm Wishes,
FOR HIS GLORY ALONE,
Faithful (not perfect) Servant
 
I just read the article and I refuse to believe that polygamy is demeaning to women. I don't think this lady is really doing much research and is making a call on her feelings. I truly believe the women in a polygamist relation are much better off than in a monogamy relationship. I like the way people in a polygamy relationship take care of each other. The families I have come in contact with are more involved in God spiritually and most of the couples are happier than in a monogamy relationship. Lacey and I have not expanded our family yet but we believe what we have to offer is truly God given love, trust, and friendship. I can't picture how that could be demeaning to Lacey or another wife. Hard to beat up a relationship when it is put together by God's loving hand. I will continue to pray for the lady who wrote that article cause she don't know everything and what is demeaning or not. She has her feelings and I will pray she someday will see the light. We must all pray for our enemies!
 
Hey All,

Just wanted to say that this particular topic has ended up going down a few spin off roads here, which I helped to make happen. Sorry for turning from this original topic and for my famous rambling! :lol: In regard to the woman who wrote the article that has been brought up, No I do not agree with her statements or foundation for her arguments. Some of the abusive activity in some plural families that the writer mentioned, do take place in "false - cultish religions/compounds." However for those who are truly in Christ, and seeking Yeshua's will, direction, wisdom and mercy to live in true - balanced - biblical & loving pm, do not have these abusive issues in their families.

The side topic that got brought up, pertain to an area where some abuse & emotional hurts have ended in destructive marriages, both plural & mono. But again if we all strive to remain in Yeshua's will for our lives, and seek to love, protect, nurture, respect and serve one another, than the ratio of these abuses having a possibility to take place will drop dramatically! Besides all marriages, both mono & plural have their share of ups & downs. And in both cases/marriages, when certain issues arise it's important to address them and deal with them in a Godly - balanced-loving & respectful way, while not allowing ourselves to trudge along in denial or by putting the blame on one person(either the woman or the man). That's all folks! Hope everyone had a blessed & yummy Thanksgiving. I feel like a stuffed turkey! :lol:

Warm Wishes,
FOR HIS GLORY ALONE!
Faithful Servant :)
 
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