Is God your first love...

[Scarecrow]

...or are you like the congregation in Ephesus?

I am posting this because we can focus on things rather than on the Lord who provides the things. This particularly applies to polygyny. When a person comes to the realization that it is not sinful for a man to have more than one wife they may become fixated on the possibility of participating in polygyny. We must be careful to always make the Lord the desire of our heart and allow Him to bring good things to us, not to pursue them outside of His will for us.

Rev 2:1-5 To the angel of the congregation in Ephesus write: ... I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place, unless you repent.

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Psa 84:11-12 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly. O LORD of hosts, blessed is the one who trusts in you!

1Sa 25:32-33 And David said to Abigail, "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who sent you this day to meet me! Blessed be your discretion, and blessed be you, who have kept me this day from bloodguilt and from working salvation with my own hand!
1Sa 25:38-39 And about ten days later the LORD struck Nabal, and he died... Then David sent and spoke to Abigail, to take her as his wife.

David was given Abigail to be his wife - he did not pursue her and try to make her his wife. Abigail was a good thing for David to have so the Lord arranged the circumstances of the situation and gave her to him.

Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
The man is being covetous in that his desire is for the woman not for God who would give him the woman if he asks for her and it is a good thing for him to have.
2Sa 12:8 And I gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more.

Eph 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
God considers covetousness to be idolatry since we are making the created more important to us than the creator.

Eze 23:37 For they have committed adultery, and blood is on their hands. With their idols they have committed adultery, and they have even offered up to them for food the children whom they had borne to me.
Idolatry is considered to be adultery as it is the breaking of the covenant the Lord has made with us, the first commandment, by making something more important to us than Him.

Our focus needs to be on our Father in heaven and his righteousness. If we do indeed seek Him and his kingdom first and foremost He will not withhold any good thing from us. If we seek the things, such as a wife or husband, or additional wives, we make them idols because they become more important to us, foremost in our thoughts, and have preeminence over God in our lives. This is covetousness which is idolatry, which to God is adultery.

This is part of the daily prayers I say:

Yehovah, I seek you and your kingdom, knowing that no good thing will be withheld from me. You know my thoughts and the desires of my heart, if any of them are good please grant them to me otherwise keep them from me and let my thoughts and desires turn toward you. Amen.

 

[Mojo]

Howdy Scarecrow. Like your post, and can't disagree with your overall premise, but I always battle within my mind about this very topic.

Remember the joke about the man in the flood? A truck, a boat and a helicopter come to save him, but he clings to his roof waiting for God to save him. When he gets to heaven, He asks the Almighty why he didn't save his life. God answers "I sent you a truck, a boat and a helicopter!"

Jesus told Peter that if he loved him, he would feed his sheep. Love and devotion require action, and the best action God sees is our agape love toward others, not just our inward "devotion". He didn't design us for asceticism. I'm a James Christian..."I will show my faith by my works".

How do we know who God is sending as a spouse?

What if he isn't actively sending anyone, but is letting us rely on his promise to bless marriage if done in the right way, and with qualified people, and let's us choose?

Just questions I ask myself EVERY day.

 

[andrew]

A guy that is busy doing what God has called him to do will find that God sends the number of helpers he needs to do his work. Or in some cases there are relational dynamics at work that drive a man to make a commitment to take care of a particular woman.

Yes, some guys go off the deep end and become infatuated with the idea of having more than one wife and lose sight of God. But I'm feeling a little tension here, because this is a strictly parachurch ministry. As individuals, our focus should be 100% on our service to God. But in the context of this ministry and this forum, our focus is pretty much on marriage and family. That's why we're here. We assume that we're all diligently seeking God's will for our lives until proven otherwise. And from there we go on to look at what the bible has to say about marriage and family and how that contrasts with what our culture (including the government church) has to say about those topics.

So yes, first and foremost, our interest is in discerning God's will for our lives and getting the "well done, good and faithful servant" at the end of the trail. Now let's figure out what that means for our families!

 

[Scarecrow]

How do we know who God is sending as a spouse? What if he isn't actively sending anyone, but is letting us rely on his promise to bless marriage if done in the right way, and with qualified people, and let's us choose?

I think a person would know by how their relationship grows and if both are open and honest with the other. The Lord brings people into our lives every day in one way or another and if it is a "good thing" He will not withhold them from us. What I was trying to convey in my post is that when people try to make a relationship happen, or desire a relationship where there isn't one, rather than allowing God to bring people together, they tend to idolize the other person.

 

[Mojo]

Is every aspect of our lives empowered by divine edict? It's an open question I deal with.

What if we personally make a wrong choice?
How do we know Gods will for a decision? What's the divining rod?
Wouldn't God be able to bless us despite our poor choices?

 

[Scarecrow]

Is every aspect of our lives empowered by divine edict? It's an open question I deal with.

What if we personally make a wrong choice?
How do we know Gods will for a decision? What's the divining rod?
Wouldn't God be able to bless us despite our poor choices?

That would be a completely separate topic...perhaps you could post that very question as a new topic and consider the replies provided.

 

[Mojo]

Scarecrow: "Our focus needs to be on our Father in heaven and his righteousness. If we do indeed seek Him and his kingdom first and foremost He will not withhold any good thing from us. If we seek the things, such as a wife or husband, or additional wives, we make them idols because they become more important to us, foremost in our thoughts, and have preeminence over God in our lives. This is covetousness which is idolatry, which to God is adultery."

I think it applies. You are saying seeking things outside of God's will or plan is idolatry.
How do we know his will or that He is giving it to us? How do we know if it's our personal choice?
I could be fooling myself thinking it's all His provision.

 

[Scarecrow]

I think it applies. You are saying seeking things outside of God's will or plan is idolatry.
How do we know his will or that He is giving it to us? How do we know if it's our personal choice?
I could be fooling myself thinking it's all His provision.

I remember when I was a teenager and I had a crush on this girl and asked her if she would be my girlfriend. She was very kind and told me not to be upset or angry, that she liked me, but that she didn't want to be my girlfriend. We remained friends and became good friends but never boyfriend and girlfriend. I didn't try to make it happen, I didn't try to do things to make her my girlfriend, I didn't keep asking her to be my girlfriend, I didn't keep thinking about her wanting her to be my girlfriend...etc...

Our personal choice does play into it. My personal choice was for her to be my girlfriend, but it was not her interest as well. There is nothing wrong with letting someone know you are interested in them. If they have an interest in you and then you have the opportunity to spend time together and get to know them better a relationship can form. This could be the beginning of God giving you a good thing. Where things go off track is when you start to try to make things happen instead of letting them happen. This new found relationship should always remain secondary in nature to your relationship with the Lord. In fact the strongest relationships I have were built while discussing scriptures and the nature and character of God. If you are open and sensitive to the Holy Spirit you will "feel" that it is right or you will feel a little uncomfortable and may not even know why. If you feel a little uncomfortable about something in the relationship it needs to be addressed before proceeding further.

As I was typing this I was reminded of these scriptures:

Act 5:34-39 But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!" So they took his advice,

We can (and often do) do things outside of the will of God, but they are difficult to achieve and often difficult to maintain, and the results are usually less than pleasant. I think any relationship that is based on God will be successful whether it turns into a friendship or continues from a friendship into a more intimate relationship. So I guess in a nutshell - let it happen, don't try to make it happen.

 

[Mojo]

Totally get you Scarecrow. I hope it didn't seem like I was trying to hijack your post or belittle it. For years now, I have pondered these very things, not for relationships, but many big things in life.

At what point am I "waiting on the Lord" or is the Lord "waiting on me"? Does everything have to have a divine course or does God allow me to walk my own path, as long as I do it according to his revealed order?

"And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it."

What does "in My name" mean? Is it wrong for us to desire something? Must it automatically become idolatrous to ask and want?

Questions...they keep coming. Like I said, I've been asking them for years!

 

[Scarecrow]

At what point am I "waiting on the Lord" or is the Lord "waiting on me"? Does everything have to have a divine course or does God allow me to walk my own path, as long as I do it according to his revealed order?
"And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it."
What does "in My name" mean? Is it wrong for us to desire something? Must it automatically become idolatrous to ask and want?

Things become idols when they become more important to us than God, when our focus is on the creation not the creator. If we rely on the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us we will make very few mistakes.

This scripture came to mind when I read your reply:

Pro 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.

We develop many plans, but it is the Lord that establishes us in the plans that He has determined are good for us. If we have something we want to do we can pursue it, but it should be done cautiously and prayerfully. If it is from God then it will prosper, if not and you continue to pursue it things will likely be difficult and not very fruitful.

I have discovered that the more time I spend in prayer and reading scripture the more often and clearly the Lord speaks to me about things. I sometimes have prayers answered immediately. This happened recently when I was praying in tongues and stopped for a moment and asked the Lord a question. The instant I finished the last word I received a "word of knowledge" - a one word answer, and it was accurate, and wasn't an answer I was expecting. The other thing is that since I started praying in tongues for an hour+ every evening I have had many many dreams and some visions as well as interesting revelations while reading scripture. In the scriptures we frequently see God using dreams to communicate to people - that hasn't changed and I log all my dreams and any interpretations given to me about them. Sometimes my dreams are for other people too. Three times now the Lord has given me a word for others through dreams. So I suggest that you learn to pray in tongues if you don't already, and spend at least an hour a day doing so. If you do you will be amazed with the results...it opens a portal between where you pray from and heaven.

 

[Mojo]

Things become idols when they become more important to us than God, when our focus is on the creation not the creator. If we rely on the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us we will make very few mistakes.

This scripture came to mind when I read your reply:

Pro 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.

We develop many plans, but it is the Lord that establishes us in the plans that He has determined are good for us. If we have something we want to do we can pursue it, but it should be done cautiously and prayerfully. If it is from God then it will prosper, if not and you continue to pursue it things will likely be difficult and not very fruitful.

I have discovered that the more time I spend in prayer and reading scripture the more often and clearly the Lord speaks to me about things. I sometimes have prayers answered immediately. This happened recently when I was praying in tongues and stopped for a moment and asked the Lord a question. The instant I finished the last word I received a "word of knowledge" - a one word answer, and it was accurate, and wasn't an answer I was expecting. The other thing is that since I started praying in tongues for an hour+ every evening I have had many many dreams and some visions as well as interesting revelations while reading scripture. In the scriptures we frequently see God using dreams to communicate to people - that hasn't changed and I log all my dreams and any interpretations given to me about them. Sometimes my dreams are for other people too. Three times now the Lord has given me a word for others through dreams. So I suggest that you learn to pray in tongues if you don't already, and spend at least an hour a day doing so. If you do you will be amazed with the results...it opens a portal between where you pray from and heaven.

I'm with you on the dreams part, and have often had the Lord use them to remind me of someone in need, or someone I had forgotten to pray about, or reach out to. I won't get into the tongues and revelations aspect. We won't see eye to eye on that, but we can agree that constant communication with the Almighty is imperative in our lives...whatever your preferred mode.

 

[Scarecrow]

I'm with you on the dreams part, and have often had the Lord use them to remind me of someone in need, or someone I had forgotten to pray about, or reach out to. I won't get into the tongues and revelations aspect. We won't see eye to eye on that, but we can agree that constant communication with the Almighty is imperative in our lives...whatever your preferred mode.

I was actually quite skeptical about praying in tongues - which is not the gift of speaking in unknown tongues - two completely different things. I heard a man I trust speak about a "prayer language" and thought it strange. Later I heard a second person mention it and it became a curiosity to me. After hearing a third person mention it I decided to look into it if I heard about it yet a forth time from a fourth trusted source. Not long thereafter it happened. I thought about it and researched it. What I discovered surprised me. It is biblical, there are passages that support it - but that is for another topic - I will suffice it to say that I decided to start doing it and was amazed at how it opened up my communication with the Lord. If I had not experienced it personally I would not advise others to do it.

 

[Mojo]

I was actually quite skeptical about praying in tongues - which is not the gift of speaking in unknown tongues - two completely different things. I heard a man I trust speak about a "prayer language" and thought it strange. Later I heard a second person mention it and it became a curiosity to me. After hearing a third person mention it I decided to look into it if I heard about it yet a forth time from a fourth trusted source. Not long thereafter it happened. I thought about it and researched it. What I discovered surprised me. It is biblical, there are passages that support it - but that is for another topic - I will suffice it to say that I decided to start doing it and was amazed at how it opened up my communication with the Lord. If I had not experienced it personally I would not advise others to do it.

I saw the thread on this topic before. I will steer clear of it. Blessings to you. Thank you for the thought provoking post.

 

[Scarecrow]

I saw the thread on this topic before. I will steer clear of it. Blessings to you. Thank you for the thought provoking post.

Another thing I neglected to mention in the original post is that when we pursue things that we are coveting, trying to make them happen, we may be missing out on something much better the Lord had made available to us... we were just too busy with lesser things to realize it.

 

[Verifyveritas76]

If you are open and sensitive to the Holy Spirit you will "feel" that it is right or you will feel a little uncomfortable and may not even know why. If you feel a little uncomfortable about something in the relationship it needs to be addressed before proceeding further.

So true! He will lead and guide you into all truth!

 

[Verifyveritas76]

Another thing I neglected to mention in the original post is that when we pursue things that we are coveting, trying to make them happen, we may be missing out on something much better the Lord had made available to us... we were just too busy with lesser things to realize it.

I agree wholeheartedly. One of my own personal dilemmas is to make business decisions with this in mind. I recently backed out of a huge business venture that seemed to be all upside simply because certain fleeces or doors that I expected to be open, were not, at least for now. Maybe later it will be a possibility but for now, I'll be faithful where I am

 

[Aussies]

So if a man should not pursue a woman for fear of idolatry or covetousness and we should then wait for God to bring the right woman to us to take as wife, then how does Deuteronomy 21:10-13 harmonize with that thought? the reason I ask is in this case it was the "mans choice" and it was due to "his attraction to her" and as she was from a nation that was at war with them and thus not a nation that served their God she could not be a gift from God as verse 14 states that if she proved to not be pleasing to him then he could divorce or send her away or let her go. If indeed she was brought to him by God then the marriage union would stick would it not.
I don't doubt that God can bring us together but does not such a text show that some choices are ours to make and regardless of how they work out they are still within the scope of acceptable conduct before God?

As Mojo said 'What does "in My name" mean? Is it wrong for us to desire something? Must it automatically become idolatrous to ask and want?"

Perhaps this text gives a little clarity to such a question.

 

[The Revolting Man]

So if a man should not pursue a woman for fear of idolatry or covetousness and we should then wait for God to bring the right woman to us to take as wife, then how does Deuteronomy 21:10-13 harmonize with that thought? the reason I ask is in this case it was the "mans choice" and it was due to "his attraction to her" and as she was from a nation that was at war with them and thus not a nation that served their God she could not be a gift from God as verse 14 states that if she proved to not be pleasing to him then he could divorce or send her away or let her go. If indeed she was brought to him by God then the marriage union would stick would it not.
I don't doubt that God can bring us together but does not such a text show that some choices are ours to make and regardless of how they work out they are still within the scope of acceptable conduct before God?

As Mojo said 'What does "in My name" mean? Is it wrong for us to desire something? Must it automatically become idolatrous to ask and want?"

Perhaps this text gives a little clarity to such a question.

You're exactly right. Men are free to pursue wives. Just be smart about it.

 

[Mojo]

You're exactly right. Men are free to pursue wives. Just be smart about it.

Likewise, when we are told "neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's" does that automatically mean we CAN covet all these things as long as they don't belong to someone else? More questions that come to my mind.

 

[Aussies]

What if we consider men like Abraham, Jacob, David, Gideon, Boaz etc, all of these men wanted for nothing. All of these had their hearts desire and all of these had more than on wife and all of these had God's blessing. (Some may contend that their is no record of Boaz having more than one wife but if you think about it, he was an older man and a wealthy man and thus as an older man he would have a wife and offspring due to the emphasis placed on children and linage at that time.) Think of the effort that Jacob put into increasing his flock (Genesis 30: 28-43) it is true that the flock increased due to Gods blessing but Jacob didn't just sit on his seat and wait for it to happen either. God blesses effort! Is it wrong to seek out our hearts desire? Ecclesiastes 9 : 7-10 tells us to live life to the full but there is also a balance that must be kept as Ecclesiastes 11:8 + 12:1 shows. However as Jesus showed in Matthew 22: 37-40 first and foremost must be our love for our God. There is a difference between sitting on our lounge and desiring or coveting things that others have and working towards such goals. Worship and a love of God must be first but then effort must be exhibited for does not the bible tell us that if a man will not work, then neither should he eat. Proverbs 13:4 clearly shows the need to work for what we want. We must get the balance right God first, then our needs and if life is good then possibly our desires. This brings to mind an old friend in her late 80s, one day I was concerned about something and she said "if it will matter in a hundred years then it is important, if not let it go" . Our love of God is that important and then so are some other things but not all things fit into that description. The secret is balance.