InTheQuestion
New Member
Hi, this is my first time posting... I found this website several years ago, and it challenged my beliefs on plural marriage. In light of the arguments presented, my wife and I discussed the Scriptural teachings on marriage, and we both agreed that plural marriage is indeed Scriptural, though neither of us had any real practical desire to pursue it. However, I have still lurked, reading things on this site off and on. The people here often have a unique take on things, and I have been consistently impressed with the character and godly counsel of the people who frequent these forums.
Well, over the past year and a half, my wife and I have had some major problems. Or more accurately, I would say we've had problems from the start, but the events of the past year and a half have forced them to the surface, and we can no longer ignore them. We have sought counsel from our pastor and family, and we have gone to marriage counseling, but so far nothing has really helped. I don't know why I didn't think of it before now, but it occurred to me that this would be an excellent place to seek counsel. So I offer our story for anyone who may be able to help... I apologize in advance for the lengthiness of it.
THE BACKSTORY:
My wife and I have been married for 9 years. We are both in our early 30s, and we have a son in kindergarten. We get along really well, but we have never really developed much chemistry or romantic connection in our relationship. The way we went about getting married set the stage for this.
As a child, my father was rather controlling of my relationships (and not in a nurturing way), and I was essentially chastised for even expressing feelings for a girl. To avoid problems at home, I never dated through high school. I am a romantic at heart, and that was very difficult for me. I pretty much had to keep all romantic feelings a secret, and I was truly afraid what my father might do if he found out I was interested in a girl. As I think back on it, as emotionally difficult as it was, not dating was still probably my best option, given the circumstances. Out of high school, I joined the military and worked there for four years. It was a very male-heavy environment, and most of the women were married, so it was difficult to find a potential mate. It didn't help that I felt very clueless of the whole process since I had no experience (or guidance) in high school. I finally started talking with girls online. Over the course of time, I ended up dating two different girls (at different times). My father was very unsupportive of these relationships, and it was very frustrating. The girls were both Christians, and they were generally nice people. But I was living halfway across the country, and I realized that he might feel differently if he could actually meet these girls.
After dating the second girl, I came across Joshua Harris' book I Kissed Dating Goodbye, and I also read his follow-up book Boy Meets Girl. If you aren't familiar with them, they basically try to avoid the pitfalls of serial dating. In other words: Don't consider anyone as a potential partner (dating or otherwise) until you are ready to get married. Don't have any physical intimacy until you get married. And the big one--Don't have any emotional intimacy (i.e. don't let yourself fall in love) until you are engaged. The idea was that emotions are rather untrustworthy, so you needed to guard your heart from falling in love until you knew that you were compatible with your potential mate. Once you decided that a marriage would work well between the two of you, based purely on practical reasons, then you were to get engaged. If possible, you should have your parents oversee the whole process, and then you would have the family blessing, and it would really help your family relations all around. If you followed these "wise" teachings, you would then be free to give your heart completely to that person without any previous baggage. Supposedly this was all backed by Scripture. (More on this below.)
Well, I was discharged from the military, and I ended up going to Bible college to study counseling (I ultimately followed a different field though). I ended up meeting my wife online. She had also read the courtship books, and we followed their advice to the T. We agreed that we could hold hands during the courtship process, but that was the extent of our physical intimacy. (Even after we were engaged, we didn't kiss until three weeks before our wedding.) We guarded the other's emotional intimacy and deliberately avoided topics that would create "in love" feelings, but we only talked about things to see if we would be compatible as spouses. I sought my dad's involvement, though he pretty well declined. He wasn't completely against this relationship, so that was at least some level of progress. My wife's parents had recently gone through a divorce, and they weren't all that supportive either (though her mother was the most supportive of anyone). We asked an older couple in my wife's church to help us in overseeing the process. They were very gracious to do so, though I think they feared butting in too much, so they didn't really do a whole lot. That basically put it on me to be the overseer of the whole courtship process. I felt a strong burden to take extra care toward maintaining physical and emotional purity. I made a concerted effort not to lust after or fall in love with my wife, trusting Joshua Harris' advice that emotional feelings and physical arousal would fall into place if you followed what was (supposedly) the Biblical model for courtship.
(I realize this probably sounds overly critical toward my dad. Yes, he really dropped the ball on his fatherly responsibilities with regard to his guidance and support in relationships, but he is a good man in many other ways. I have since realized that it's important to HONOR your father and seek his BLESSING, but that's very different from seeking his APPROVAL. Scripture is very clear that we should not seek approval from men, but only from God.)
THE CURRENT SITUATION:
Well, as "wise" as the courtship advice may have sounded at the time, I have since gone back and looked at the Scriptural proof text verses for this philosophy, and I have found them to be interpreted poorly. I completely agree that you need to be careful about letting your emotions carry you away, and physical intimacy should be approached cautiously, maintaining clear boundaries with anyone who isn't yet your spouse. However, the main problem with these teachings is that if you spend your entire pre-engagement maintaining rather distant and sterile feelings toward your potential spouse, what makes you think warm and intimate feelings will develop? In fact, if you set that as your pattern for relating to one another, it's very difficult to break that pattern. I now see that you need to look at both compatibility and chemistry (not sexual, but relational). The courtship books essentially "promised" that the "in love" feelings would naturally flow from following their advice. I now realize that no one can promise that, and it's a foolish gamble if it's important to you to be in love with your spouse.
We have been married nine years now, and I have truly tried to make it work. I have tried developing the "in love" feelings, but they have never come. Until a year and a half ago, I had pretty well stuffed my desires for a romantic relationship. I decided that those feelings are not necessary for a great marriage. You can choose to love (action) even if you don't feel "in love" (emotion). This mindset generally helped to create a peaceful marriage, and from all appearances, we seemed like a happy couple. My wife and I are quite "compatible," and we have had a peaceful marriage with few disagreements, but we have little chemistry. Unfortunately, over the past couple of years I have come to know a younger woman I work with who is basically everything I was looking for, personality-wise. We just really connect on an intuitive level. She daily reminds me of what I have always wanted in a partner. We go to church with her and her family, and with my job it's difficult not to interact with her on a pretty regular basis. It constantly reminds me that I have never really felt "in love" with my wife, and it has been extremely difficult not to fall in love with this girl.
My wife and I have always been very open with our feelings, and I have let her know about all of this. She has been very supportive through the process, and she actually had a somewhat similar incident with a co-worker a couple of years ago. (Her work schedule changed, and then we moved, so it pretty well took care of itself.)
I should mention that I have a rather unusual personality style. In my college counseling classes, we learned of the Merrill & Reed personality styles--Driver, Analytical, Expressive, and Amiable. Through all of this, I've realized that, for me, a "10" is an Amiable-Analytical-Expressive. This is a fairly unusual combination. I'm pretty sure this fit my best friend in high school, and up until now I had only met one other person like this. My personality style combination is Expressive-Amiable-Analytical. In fact, my high school guidance counselor had everyone take a career assessment test, and she told me that she'd never seen my personality style before; there were only two jobs in her giant book of career suggestions that fit my personality type. My wife, incidentally, is an Analytical-Amiable with a small amount of Driver, and Expressive is very low on her list.
Whether or not you're familiar with this personality model, it's not all that important. The key is that certain personality traits really resonate with me, and they are fairly difficult to come by all in one package. It's the rare individual I really strongly click with on all levels. Meeting this younger woman has made me realize that such individuals do exist though, however rare they may be. Out of love for my wife, I am intentionally avoiding connecting with this woman to a great degree, but I honestly feel like I'm killing myself in the process. I've struggled with a lack of connection with my wife throughout our marriage, but I've been pretty successful at stuffing those feelings. This situation forces those feelings into the light, and I can't ignore them. It's pretty well impossible for me to change the work situation in the forseeable future, so I can't just move away from it--and even if I did, I know deep down I know that wouldn't solve anything. The same situation would only come up again some day.
THE MORAL DIFFICULTY:
On the one hand, I want to be faithful to our marriage vows. Even if my wife and I married under less-than-wise counsel, we still have a marriage covenant before God. On the other hand, I feel like I'm dying inside. We have gone to counselors and tried all sorts of things to build chemistry/connection, but we just don't click very well on that level. I would say that we are good friends, but there's very little we enjoy doing together. We have tried going on dates and spending more time with each other, but ultimately it's just kind of frustrating. She is happy to just support each other in our various endeavors (we have two very different career fields), and she says she is okay if that chemistry isn't there. She enjoys our friendship to whatever level it can be.
I should add that my wife "cheated" (our little joke) during the courtship process and fell in love with me. Because I took the burden to protect our emotional purity so strongly, she felt freer to experience her emotions. So she doesn't feel as strongly as I do about our difficulties in connecting. In fact, she does feel more connected than I do. In many ways, I feel like a selfish jerk, but I just don't know how to feel any differently. If I could turn off my emotions, I happily would--though I don't know that would help anything very much. With this other woman, I realize there is always "the grass is greener" syndrome, and even if that's the case here, I still struggle with my emotional connection with my wife. It has made me pretty depressed, and I really struggle with the idea that I may have "settled" for a compatible spouse, but one with whom I have little chemistry. We have tried again and again to build chemistry, but it has generally fallen flat. We just don't interact in a way that lights each other's fire. I feel like we both survive, but we never thrive.
Like I said, my wife and I are really good friends, and I appreciate so many things about her abilities and her character. I really respect how she has handled this and her willingness to talk it out. I don't want to just throw away our positive relationship, but I really yearn for a connected romantic relationship in a way that she really struggles to provide. And I struggle to provide much of what makes her tick as well. We have talked out every possible scenario. We have even discussed the idea of plural marriage, but she said she couldn't deal with the cultural struggles it would bring. I don't know that that is the solution, but I feel that it's at least worth taking the time to look at all options.
I have no desire to leave my wife. I would have a difficult time living with myself morally, and I would feel like I was turning away from my wife and God. Yet I feel like the current situation is going to destroy me psychologically in the long run. If I just push through the situation with little hope of it improving to a point that's truly satisfying for both my wife and myself, I also have a difficult time with myself morally. I feel like I am being disingenuous to myself, my wife, my son, and everyone I meet. I feel like I have no testimony in our marriage. How can I counsel people or offer them any hope with regard to marriage? What can I say? "We've never had chemistry and may never, but I just make the best of it in order to be faithful to my marriage vows"? Hardly a compelling testimony. And what hope can I give to anyone else in a similar situation?
I've really struggled with understanding God through all this. I know God uses our difficulties to teach us lessons, and I am trying to be as open as possible to learning the lesson here. It has been through many tears and struggles, and I feel I have certainly learned a lesson about seeking parental approval (as opposed to blessing) and the process of choosing a spouse, but I feel like I may have learned the lesson too late to have any practical application for it in my life.
Any thoughts, advice, and/or prayers would be much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Well, over the past year and a half, my wife and I have had some major problems. Or more accurately, I would say we've had problems from the start, but the events of the past year and a half have forced them to the surface, and we can no longer ignore them. We have sought counsel from our pastor and family, and we have gone to marriage counseling, but so far nothing has really helped. I don't know why I didn't think of it before now, but it occurred to me that this would be an excellent place to seek counsel. So I offer our story for anyone who may be able to help... I apologize in advance for the lengthiness of it.
THE BACKSTORY:
My wife and I have been married for 9 years. We are both in our early 30s, and we have a son in kindergarten. We get along really well, but we have never really developed much chemistry or romantic connection in our relationship. The way we went about getting married set the stage for this.
As a child, my father was rather controlling of my relationships (and not in a nurturing way), and I was essentially chastised for even expressing feelings for a girl. To avoid problems at home, I never dated through high school. I am a romantic at heart, and that was very difficult for me. I pretty much had to keep all romantic feelings a secret, and I was truly afraid what my father might do if he found out I was interested in a girl. As I think back on it, as emotionally difficult as it was, not dating was still probably my best option, given the circumstances. Out of high school, I joined the military and worked there for four years. It was a very male-heavy environment, and most of the women were married, so it was difficult to find a potential mate. It didn't help that I felt very clueless of the whole process since I had no experience (or guidance) in high school. I finally started talking with girls online. Over the course of time, I ended up dating two different girls (at different times). My father was very unsupportive of these relationships, and it was very frustrating. The girls were both Christians, and they were generally nice people. But I was living halfway across the country, and I realized that he might feel differently if he could actually meet these girls.
After dating the second girl, I came across Joshua Harris' book I Kissed Dating Goodbye, and I also read his follow-up book Boy Meets Girl. If you aren't familiar with them, they basically try to avoid the pitfalls of serial dating. In other words: Don't consider anyone as a potential partner (dating or otherwise) until you are ready to get married. Don't have any physical intimacy until you get married. And the big one--Don't have any emotional intimacy (i.e. don't let yourself fall in love) until you are engaged. The idea was that emotions are rather untrustworthy, so you needed to guard your heart from falling in love until you knew that you were compatible with your potential mate. Once you decided that a marriage would work well between the two of you, based purely on practical reasons, then you were to get engaged. If possible, you should have your parents oversee the whole process, and then you would have the family blessing, and it would really help your family relations all around. If you followed these "wise" teachings, you would then be free to give your heart completely to that person without any previous baggage. Supposedly this was all backed by Scripture. (More on this below.)
Well, I was discharged from the military, and I ended up going to Bible college to study counseling (I ultimately followed a different field though). I ended up meeting my wife online. She had also read the courtship books, and we followed their advice to the T. We agreed that we could hold hands during the courtship process, but that was the extent of our physical intimacy. (Even after we were engaged, we didn't kiss until three weeks before our wedding.) We guarded the other's emotional intimacy and deliberately avoided topics that would create "in love" feelings, but we only talked about things to see if we would be compatible as spouses. I sought my dad's involvement, though he pretty well declined. He wasn't completely against this relationship, so that was at least some level of progress. My wife's parents had recently gone through a divorce, and they weren't all that supportive either (though her mother was the most supportive of anyone). We asked an older couple in my wife's church to help us in overseeing the process. They were very gracious to do so, though I think they feared butting in too much, so they didn't really do a whole lot. That basically put it on me to be the overseer of the whole courtship process. I felt a strong burden to take extra care toward maintaining physical and emotional purity. I made a concerted effort not to lust after or fall in love with my wife, trusting Joshua Harris' advice that emotional feelings and physical arousal would fall into place if you followed what was (supposedly) the Biblical model for courtship.
(I realize this probably sounds overly critical toward my dad. Yes, he really dropped the ball on his fatherly responsibilities with regard to his guidance and support in relationships, but he is a good man in many other ways. I have since realized that it's important to HONOR your father and seek his BLESSING, but that's very different from seeking his APPROVAL. Scripture is very clear that we should not seek approval from men, but only from God.)
THE CURRENT SITUATION:
Well, as "wise" as the courtship advice may have sounded at the time, I have since gone back and looked at the Scriptural proof text verses for this philosophy, and I have found them to be interpreted poorly. I completely agree that you need to be careful about letting your emotions carry you away, and physical intimacy should be approached cautiously, maintaining clear boundaries with anyone who isn't yet your spouse. However, the main problem with these teachings is that if you spend your entire pre-engagement maintaining rather distant and sterile feelings toward your potential spouse, what makes you think warm and intimate feelings will develop? In fact, if you set that as your pattern for relating to one another, it's very difficult to break that pattern. I now see that you need to look at both compatibility and chemistry (not sexual, but relational). The courtship books essentially "promised" that the "in love" feelings would naturally flow from following their advice. I now realize that no one can promise that, and it's a foolish gamble if it's important to you to be in love with your spouse.
We have been married nine years now, and I have truly tried to make it work. I have tried developing the "in love" feelings, but they have never come. Until a year and a half ago, I had pretty well stuffed my desires for a romantic relationship. I decided that those feelings are not necessary for a great marriage. You can choose to love (action) even if you don't feel "in love" (emotion). This mindset generally helped to create a peaceful marriage, and from all appearances, we seemed like a happy couple. My wife and I are quite "compatible," and we have had a peaceful marriage with few disagreements, but we have little chemistry. Unfortunately, over the past couple of years I have come to know a younger woman I work with who is basically everything I was looking for, personality-wise. We just really connect on an intuitive level. She daily reminds me of what I have always wanted in a partner. We go to church with her and her family, and with my job it's difficult not to interact with her on a pretty regular basis. It constantly reminds me that I have never really felt "in love" with my wife, and it has been extremely difficult not to fall in love with this girl.
My wife and I have always been very open with our feelings, and I have let her know about all of this. She has been very supportive through the process, and she actually had a somewhat similar incident with a co-worker a couple of years ago. (Her work schedule changed, and then we moved, so it pretty well took care of itself.)
I should mention that I have a rather unusual personality style. In my college counseling classes, we learned of the Merrill & Reed personality styles--Driver, Analytical, Expressive, and Amiable. Through all of this, I've realized that, for me, a "10" is an Amiable-Analytical-Expressive. This is a fairly unusual combination. I'm pretty sure this fit my best friend in high school, and up until now I had only met one other person like this. My personality style combination is Expressive-Amiable-Analytical. In fact, my high school guidance counselor had everyone take a career assessment test, and she told me that she'd never seen my personality style before; there were only two jobs in her giant book of career suggestions that fit my personality type. My wife, incidentally, is an Analytical-Amiable with a small amount of Driver, and Expressive is very low on her list.
Whether or not you're familiar with this personality model, it's not all that important. The key is that certain personality traits really resonate with me, and they are fairly difficult to come by all in one package. It's the rare individual I really strongly click with on all levels. Meeting this younger woman has made me realize that such individuals do exist though, however rare they may be. Out of love for my wife, I am intentionally avoiding connecting with this woman to a great degree, but I honestly feel like I'm killing myself in the process. I've struggled with a lack of connection with my wife throughout our marriage, but I've been pretty successful at stuffing those feelings. This situation forces those feelings into the light, and I can't ignore them. It's pretty well impossible for me to change the work situation in the forseeable future, so I can't just move away from it--and even if I did, I know deep down I know that wouldn't solve anything. The same situation would only come up again some day.
THE MORAL DIFFICULTY:
On the one hand, I want to be faithful to our marriage vows. Even if my wife and I married under less-than-wise counsel, we still have a marriage covenant before God. On the other hand, I feel like I'm dying inside. We have gone to counselors and tried all sorts of things to build chemistry/connection, but we just don't click very well on that level. I would say that we are good friends, but there's very little we enjoy doing together. We have tried going on dates and spending more time with each other, but ultimately it's just kind of frustrating. She is happy to just support each other in our various endeavors (we have two very different career fields), and she says she is okay if that chemistry isn't there. She enjoys our friendship to whatever level it can be.
I should add that my wife "cheated" (our little joke) during the courtship process and fell in love with me. Because I took the burden to protect our emotional purity so strongly, she felt freer to experience her emotions. So she doesn't feel as strongly as I do about our difficulties in connecting. In fact, she does feel more connected than I do. In many ways, I feel like a selfish jerk, but I just don't know how to feel any differently. If I could turn off my emotions, I happily would--though I don't know that would help anything very much. With this other woman, I realize there is always "the grass is greener" syndrome, and even if that's the case here, I still struggle with my emotional connection with my wife. It has made me pretty depressed, and I really struggle with the idea that I may have "settled" for a compatible spouse, but one with whom I have little chemistry. We have tried again and again to build chemistry, but it has generally fallen flat. We just don't interact in a way that lights each other's fire. I feel like we both survive, but we never thrive.
Like I said, my wife and I are really good friends, and I appreciate so many things about her abilities and her character. I really respect how she has handled this and her willingness to talk it out. I don't want to just throw away our positive relationship, but I really yearn for a connected romantic relationship in a way that she really struggles to provide. And I struggle to provide much of what makes her tick as well. We have talked out every possible scenario. We have even discussed the idea of plural marriage, but she said she couldn't deal with the cultural struggles it would bring. I don't know that that is the solution, but I feel that it's at least worth taking the time to look at all options.
I have no desire to leave my wife. I would have a difficult time living with myself morally, and I would feel like I was turning away from my wife and God. Yet I feel like the current situation is going to destroy me psychologically in the long run. If I just push through the situation with little hope of it improving to a point that's truly satisfying for both my wife and myself, I also have a difficult time with myself morally. I feel like I am being disingenuous to myself, my wife, my son, and everyone I meet. I feel like I have no testimony in our marriage. How can I counsel people or offer them any hope with regard to marriage? What can I say? "We've never had chemistry and may never, but I just make the best of it in order to be faithful to my marriage vows"? Hardly a compelling testimony. And what hope can I give to anyone else in a similar situation?
I've really struggled with understanding God through all this. I know God uses our difficulties to teach us lessons, and I am trying to be as open as possible to learning the lesson here. It has been through many tears and struggles, and I feel I have certainly learned a lesson about seeking parental approval (as opposed to blessing) and the process of choosing a spouse, but I feel like I may have learned the lesson too late to have any practical application for it in my life.
Any thoughts, advice, and/or prayers would be much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Still, while we were very compatible along many lines, our common interests were (and in many respects still are) lacking. I used to think that attraction had to be built on those common interests. I don't believe though that it is too late for you to "fall in love" with your wife, and don't think there is a good reason for divorce. I don't know what you've tried from a counseling and dating standpoint, but I can tell you some things that helped with my wife and I. A big one was actually praying together. It helps us stay on the same page and gives us insight into what is important to each other on a daily basis. Another thing was to fall in love with the idea of being in love with my wife. It seemed like an easy thought to start from scratch, find someone new, and try again. But really, that is "grass is greener" thinking. You've no guarantee that this other woman would end up with you and you'd be happily ever after. And if she's so great, would she really want a guy who basically left his wife for her?
