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General Honorable women stuck in neutral

Bartato

Seasoned Member
Real Person*
Male
There are some quality women who would really like be married, but are stuck in neutral going nowhere. For whatever reason, there aren't any guys pursuing them. I feel for these women. They might end up being "leftover", and never marrying, or marrying too late to bear children. It would be good if they at least knew that polygyny is a legitimate option for them.

My wife and I have a close friend that fits this category. She is twenty-nine years old, and would love to have gotten married years ago, and had a family by now. Her clock is ticking, and there don't seem to be any prospects on the horizon. Her friends have all gotten married, and are having children. Still, she waits.

She is shy, introverted, and "bookish".
Furthermore, she is of average appearance and is a little on the chubby side. She isn't morbidity obese or anything. She's is just heavy enough that most men will look past her, and not consider her as potential wife material.

Furthermore, she is a thoughtful, and knowledgeable Christian. She wouldn't want to date a non-Christian man. She wouldn't really want a shallow, superficial, or immature Christian man.

She has a pleasant, cheerful, and agreeable personality, but is serious minded, and isn't bubbly, chatty, or flirty.

As a result, there just aren't any guys pursuing her. In fact, she has never dated at all.

She didn't waste her twenties partying, fornicating, borrowing thousands of dollars to pursue worthless college degrees, or chasing a meaningless career. She is just shy, a "homebody", and a bit chubby.

I understand. Back when I was a single man in my twenties, I would have liked her as a friend, but not thought of her as girlfriend or wife material.

As an older and wiser man, with two decades of marriage under my belt, I see that she has a lot of excellent qualities, and would potentially make a very good wife.

Now, I see her beauty, and am delighted by her company every time my wife and I spend time with her.

1. She is intelligent and well read. I have intellectually stimulating conversations with her.
2. She loves children. She teaches children at church, and tutors children after her day job. She would love to homeschool any children that God might give her.
3. She likes to cook, bake, and would love to be a homemaker
4. She is very diligent. She works hard, and manages her time well
5. She is a talented artist
6. She understands that the Bible designates the husband as the head of the household, and She holds to Christ by faith.
7. She likes the rural country life
8. She is very meek, modest, and chaste
9. She is financially responsible, hates debt, and lives modestly below her means.
10. She has very beautiful blue eyes.
11. She has practical and marketable job skills. She could operate a home based business, or help her husband with his business.
12. While she isn't "a smoking hot babe", I certainly find her physically attractive and desirable.
13. She is young enough to bear several children if she marries relatively soon.

This young woman really seems to fit well with my wife and I. In spite of the 15+ year age difference, our personalities seem to mesh very well.

She generally goes out of her way to come to sit by my wife at church. We have had her to our house for dinner a number of times, and the hours fly by with all of us enjoying the company. A couple years ago, she stayed at our home for a couple days when her air conditioner was broken during hot weather. It was a delight to have her there, and she really seems to enjoy our company. She especially enjoys my wife's cooking (my wife is a great cook). She has also cooked for us (and is a good cook).

We know her parents, and like them very much. They also like us very well. (Though they would probably hate me if they knew that I thought about their daughter in the context of poly)

This young woman and my wife are dear friends and love each other very much. They are both kind and tender hearted. Neither would ever want to hurt anyone. They also have tons of common interests, and love spending time together.

My wife and I often pray that God would bring the right man for this woman. Some part of me wonders if it might ever be possible for me to be an answer to that prayer. (It would take a miracle from God)

My wife has often said she wished she had a sister, and that she longs to have deep female friendship. I think this friend could help meet that desire.

Also, remember that my wife and I are childless. It could be such a blessing if God were to bring children into our home via this woman. I really my family could bless her, and she could bless us.

I also think this woman thoroughly enjoys my company. I would guess that she also finds me attractive as a man.

(I would never want to do anything improper towards her, and she would never want to do anything improper with me)

Most of our social interactions have been with the three of us, but my wife and this gal have also done things together from time to time.

If polygyny was socially acceptable (it isn't), and if my wife was willing (she definitely is not), I would seriously consider pursuing this young woman.

I'm pretty sure this young woman has never thought about polygyny. I'm sure she doesn't know that it is lawful. She is smart enough, and Biblical serious enough that she would probably get it if someone explained it to her.

If she knew it to be lawful, and if my wife gave her blessing, I think she might consider it.

For now, I must focus on seeking Christ,. blessing my wife, and praying about the future.
 
You may be able to tread a very incremental conversational pathway over time that leads to introducing the concepts of Biblical polygyny to this young woman. If your perceptions are correct, an actual relationship between you could be very beneficial to both of you -- and as beneficial to your current wife as she is willing to allow it to be.

I struggle with some of the same things myself, though, in my marriage, so I'm not discounting how difficult discovering the correct pathway is.
 
You may be able to tread a very incremental conversational pathway over time that leads to introducing the concepts of Biblical polygyny to this young woman. If your perceptions are correct, an actual relationship between you could be very beneficial to both of you -- and as beneficial to your current wife as she is willing to allow it to be.

I struggle with some of the same things myself, though, in my marriage, so I'm not discounting how difficult discovering the correct pathway is.


Thanks Keith, I realize the utmost care is required
 
And I sense you do; I just want to give you some encouragement for having confidence in your intuition.
 
she is .. a little on the chubby side.

3. She likes to cook, bake,
Sadly, I fear these two things are likely related. Unless she has some severe chronic health problem causing this, I think that for most people, diet modification alone is sufficient to produce night and day turn arounds in health. In her case, losing weight, and getting more fit; no extra exercise/workout needed. If you could draw her into a more healthy lifestyle, you at least have bettered her for having been in your life, and had an opportunity to interact more; especially in a leadership role. God knows where it may lead.

As for healthy lifestyle, I think that baking has little involvement therein. Baking typically causes browning/burning, and this is damaged fat and protein, which is surely not good for you. Then the question is; How much poison do you want to eat? It is best to eat things that are raw or steamed/boiled, as that will not cause burning. Also, I do not believe that grains are part of an optimally healthy diet.

For health turn around from diet modification, here are some examples.
(warning; women in bikini level attire)
https://www.google.com/search?q=paleo+before+after&tbm=isch
https://www.google.com/search?q=whole+30+before+after&tbm=isch

I have been at this 10 years, and I'm "not there" yet, and I expect this to be a lifelong journey. I'm amazed at what results they were able to achieve in a mere 30 days. I mean, 30 days is the blink of an eye; a year is the a blink of the eye. I think of studying and working to improve my physical health like bible study to improve my spiritual health; it's a lifelong journey.

There are many diets out there that people do. Vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, fruitarian, juicing, etc. "Everyone" who goes from Standard American Diet (SAD) finds great improvement on these, and think they've found a great diet. The reason they feel so much better isn't that the diet is so great, it's that they cut out the vile trash sold as food that constitutes the Standard American Diet. Later they find that the diet lacks nutrients (because they peaked, and are now having new health problems), and they have to branch out. That should be less of a problem on something like the Paleo diet.

I think Paleo is one good starting point, but there are many others that are also good. I don't think that there is any one-size-fits-all diet that works for everyone. It is necessary to experiment and see what foods work, and what don't, and even that will change over time as one's health changes. I personally know a number of people who enjoyed good progress with Suzanne Somers's books before proceeding to something more strict. These could be a good stepping stone if Paleo seems too extreme.

A good place to look are the articles at https://www.mercola.com/

Look at what Vitamin C can do. https://knowledgeofhealth.com/200year-lifespan/

I've written about this previously. You can read more here, if you're interested.
https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/please-pray-for-god-to-speak-to-us.14207/#post-165994
 
Sadly, I fear these two things are likely related. Unless she has some severe chronic health problem causing this, I think that for most people, diet modification alone is sufficient to produce night and day turn arounds in health. In her case, losing weight, and getting more fit; no extra exercise/workout needed. If you could draw her into a more healthy lifestyle, you at least have bettered her for having been in your life, and had an opportunity to interact more; especially in a leadership role. God knows where it may lead.

As for healthy lifestyle, I think that baking has little involvement therein. Baking typically causes browning/burning, and this is damaged fat and protein, which is surely not good for you. Then the question is; How much poison do you want to eat? It is best to eat things that are raw or steamed/boiled, as that will not cause burning. Also, I do not believe that grains are part of an optimally healthy diet.

For health turn around from diet modification, here are some examples.
(warning; women in bikini level attire)
https://www.google.com/search?q=paleo+before+after&tbm=isch
https://www.google.com/search?q=whole+30+before+after&tbm=isch

I have been at this 10 years, and I'm "not there" yet, and I expect this to be a lifelong journey. I'm amazed at what results they were able to achieve in a mere 30 days. I mean, 30 days is the blink of an eye; a year is the a blink of the eye. I think of studying and working to improve my physical health like bible study to improve my spiritual health; it's a lifelong journey.

There are many diets out there that people do. Vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, fruitarian, juicing, etc. "Everyone" who goes from Standard American Diet (SAD) finds great improvement on these, and think they've found a great diet. The reason they feel so much better isn't that the diet is so great, it's that they cut out the vile trash sold as food that constitutes the Standard American Diet. Later they find that the diet lacks nutrients (because they peaked, and are now having new health problems), and they have to branch out. That should be less of a problem on something like the Paleo diet.

I think Paleo is one good starting point, but there are many others that are also good. I don't think that there is any one-size-fits-all diet that works for everyone. It is necessary to experiment and see what foods work, and what don't, and even that will change over time as one's health changes. I personally know a number of people who enjoyed good progress with Suzanne Somers's books before proceeding to something more strict. These could be a good stepping stone if Paleo seems too extreme.

A good place to look are the articles at https://www.mercola.com/

Look at what Vitamin C can do. https://knowledgeofhealth.com/200year-lifespan/

I've written about this previously. You can read more here, if you're interested.
https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/please-pray-for-god-to-speak-to-us.14207/#post-165994


No no no no, that’s terrible advice! Marry her FIRST, then help her become more physically fit... otherwise things could back fire on you.


Ps. @eye4them I’m teasing :D... but seriously:rolleyes:
 
No no no no, that’s terrible advice! Marry her FIRST, then help her become more physically fit... otherwise things could back fire on you.
I hear ya.
Cleaning fish for someone else’s dinner isn’t as fun.


But:
....as unto the Lord.
 
Sadly, I fear these two things are likely related. Unless she has some severe chronic health problem causing this, I think that for most people, diet modification alone is sufficient to produce night and day turn arounds in health. In her case, losing weight, and getting more fit; no extra exercise/workout needed. If you could draw her into a more healthy lifestyle, you at least have bettered her for having been in your life, and had an opportunity to interact more; especially in a leadership role. God knows where it may lead.

As for healthy lifestyle, I think that baking has little involvement therein. Baking typically causes browning/burning, and this is damaged fat and protein, which is surely not good for you. Then the question is; How much poison do you want to eat? It is best to eat things that are raw or steamed/boiled, as that will not cause burning. Also, I do not believe that grains are part of an optimally healthy diet.

For health turn around from diet modification, here are some examples.
(warning; women in bikini level attire)
https://www.google.com/search?q=paleo+before+after&tbm=isch
https://www.google.com/search?q=whole+30+before+after&tbm=isch

I have been at this 10 years, and I'm "not there" yet, and I expect this to be a lifelong journey. I'm amazed at what results they were able to achieve in a mere 30 days. I mean, 30 days is the blink of an eye; a year is the a blink of the eye. I think of studying and working to improve my physical health like bible study to improve my spiritual health; it's a lifelong journey.

There are many diets out there that people do. Vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, fruitarian, juicing, etc. "Everyone" who goes from Standard American Diet (SAD) finds great improvement on these, and think they've found a great diet. The reason they feel so much better isn't that the diet is so great, it's that they cut out the vile trash sold as food that constitutes the Standard American Diet. Later they find that the diet lacks nutrients (because they peaked, and are now having new health problems), and they have to branch out. That should be less of a problem on something like the Paleo diet.

I think Paleo is one good starting point, but there are many others that are also good. I don't think that there is any one-size-fits-all diet that works for everyone. It is necessary to experiment and see what foods work, and what don't, and even that will change over time as one's health changes. I personally know a number of people who enjoyed good progress with Suzanne Somers's books before proceeding to something more strict. These could be a good stepping stone if Paleo seems too extreme.

A good place to look are the articles at https://www.mercola.com/

Look at what Vitamin C can do. https://knowledgeofhealth.com/200year-lifespan/

I've written about this previously. You can read more here, if you're interested.
https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/threads/please-pray-for-god-to-speak-to-us.14207/#post-165994

I think you are largely right about diet. I, my wife, and this young woman all have a bit of a sweet tooth, and enjoy a good meal. Maybe that is part of the reason we have so much fun together.

I compensate for it by hitting the gym and weights a couple times a week. Adding some muscle mass really boosts the metabolism and helps me keep my weight under control.

Although my wife and I like goodies, she cooks almost all of our food from scratch (rather than eating a lot of highly processed foods). Also, I am a big gardener, so we eat way more vegetables, fruit, and pastured eggs than most people.

I know I could personally really take things to next level fitness wise by restricting carbs (paleo keto whatever). I'm in far better shape than most guys my age (upper 40s). I'm tall, and the weight lifting has given me broad shoulders and proper man arms. Still, I have the chubby tummy of the guy who likes to eat a bit too much.

Regarding our friend, improving her diet, and hitting the gym, would enable her to drop some weight. That would substantially increase her confidence and physical attractiveness. If she did that, and put herself out there a little more (be it online, or through the grapevine of conservative evangelical churches in our area), she shouldn't have much trouble finding an appropriate husband.

It is hard to tell people things like that. It is especially difficult to tell women things like that.

Also as mentioned above, the fact that guy's aren't crawling over each other to get to her is part of what gives me just a glimmer of hope.

Then again, if I am to ever have more than one wife, the woman will come from the hand of my Master in Heaven.
 
Then again, if I am to ever have more than one wife, the woman will come from the hand of my Master in Heaven.
How do you know this woman isn't that gift from God? We are told in Proverbs that a prudent wife is from God, and this woman sounds like she would make a prudent wife, so are you missing something that's slapping you in the face? Just asking. Shalom
 
@Bartato, I'm glad to hear of your already in-place healthy lifestyle. I've spent many years of my life being unhealthy... it's no fun at all, which is part of why I preach these things I've learned.


Note; The remaining portion of message was composed before I read Bartato's reply in #10, or Frederick's, and is mostly a reply to @Asforme&myhouse and @steve, followed by possible expansion on the topic. My message is perhaps less relevant after Bartato's message in #10, but I proffer it still in the hope that my remarks shall be beneficial to someone hereafter.


If she's going to cut and run after she gets healthy, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

Cutting and running is also a very real concern; people who are unhealthy think differently; not only from sub-optimum brain chemistry/nutrition, but also from a mindset, frustration, and limited options as a result of the physical problems of being unhealthy. Her life priorities and attitudes may change quite dramatically once she has more options from being more healthy. Case in point; being more healthy (physically attractive) will provide her with more options of men to chose from, and likely receive more male attention also. If she's going to go and run off with Chad, that's really good to know sooner rather than later. If she does that, I expect she will abandon the healthy diet, crash, and her later state will be worse than the first.

If she prefers to follow her belly rather than her man, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

If for some reason diet modification does not achieve health-improvement success, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

As I alluded to before, even if things don't "go anywhere", one has at least helped to improve another human being's life.

I'm not seeing the downside here, gentleman. :)



A mother's body processes her food, and, by extension; feeds her growing child she's carrying. If she's eating a poor diet, her child is eating a poor diet, and at the worst possible time; early development. If she's unhealthy, her body is obviously not working optimally, and thus can't be expected to support the development of a healthy child. I see many unhealthy mothers out there. and I don't recall ever seeing them having healthy children in tow, quite the opposite indeed. Contrast that with the occasional fit mother I see who appears to be wearing her gym clothes; her children look healthy and fit also. It's not just material/gestational diet, it's also what food she prepares and feeds to her children that also impacts their health. It is sadly common, but it is not normal for a woman's health and beauty to tank after she has children.

Desire for healthy offspring is one of the reasons men so heavily select for beautiful women. This drive was placed there by God, and why men almost universally find young women most attractive. What men consider as beautiful is driven in large part by outward indicators of physical health (typically best when when young), and by extension her ability to carry and bear healthy/strong offspring.

One could look at this from an "evolutionary" (ha!) perspective and what it takes for a species to survive, but the deleterious results of producing unhealthy offspring are visible in one generation right before our eyes. Not only is that offspring miserable, they also have reduced contribution of value to the betterment of society, and may even be a burden on society.

Men selecting for beautiful (healthy) women has a two-fold benefit to the species;
1) It slows the degradation of the species that results from unhealthy women producing unhealthy children.
2) encourages unhealthy women to improve their health.

Roughly the same process takes place with women selecting for successful/strong men who can provide for them; it drives men to achieve and be successful; both in life and with women.



Health and beauty is a complex topic, and more than just diet. Diet is perhaps easiest to change, and can fix the body, but poor facial structure is more difficult to fix, though not impossible.

Such a subtle thing as getting a gerbil precipitated the deterioration of this man's health :( That severely impacted the pool of women available to him. Notice what the Dr. says about seeing the white of the eye under the iris, and then look at...
hunter vs prey eyes.
https://i.imgur.com/DTbYmpg.png
Also take note of their radically different facial structure.

The hunter eyes apply to women also.
https://www.google.com/search?q=melania+narrow+eyes&tbm=isch
Melania's narrow eyes are perhaps a bit extreme, but the general idea applies.
And a counter example...
https://www.google.com/search?q=aoc+googly+eyes&tbm=isch

The same facial structure change applies to women also.
https://www.google.com/search?q=protruding+maxilla+women&tbm=isch
The side-by-side pictures show an amazing story, how much more attractive those women look with healthy facial structure; and that it's fixable!

One such facial restructuring technique is called Mewing, and people seem to have good success with, though easier when younger. There are no doubt many other methods.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mewing



Beauty is very quantifiable, and very closely tied to health.
 
How do you know this woman isn't that gift from God? We are told in Proverbs that a prudent wife is from God, and this woman sounds like she would make a prudent wife, so are you missing something that's slapping you in the face? Just asking. Shalom


I think it is possible that she might be that. That's part of the reason I mentioned the situation. I'm not sure if, how, when, what, etc to do about it.
 
I think it is possible that she might be that. That's part of the reason I mentioned the situation. I'm not sure if, how, when, what, etc to do about it.
Do you have a time each day reading the Bible for your wife? If not, start today. Start at the beginning and read through the Bible and you only have to read for a day or two when you hit the first example of polygyny. If you do read the Bible for your wife each day, whenever your female friend is with you, include her. Be the godly man she's looking to be her husband/leader and she may even ask you to be that man in her life! I know it works because it has worked twice for me. Set the example; be the godly man. God never punishes people for doing what's good and right. Best wishes brother. Shalom
 
Note; The remaining portion of message was composed before I read Bartato's reply in #10, or Frederick's, and is mostly a reply to @Asforme&myhouse and @steve, followed by possible expansion on the topic. My message is perhaps less relevant after Bartato's message in #10, but I proffer it still in the hope that my remarks shall be beneficial to someone hereafter.


If she's going to cut and run after she gets healthy, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

Cutting and running is also a very real concern; people who are unhealthy think differently; not only from sub-optimum brain chemistry/nutrition, but also from a mindset, frustration, and limited options as a result of the physical problems of being unhealthy. Her life priorities and attitudes may change quite dramatically once she has more options from being more healthy. Case in point; being more healthy (physically attractive) will provide her with more options of men to chose from, and likely receive more male attention also. If she's going to go and run off with Chad, that's really good to know sooner rather than later. If she does that, I expect she will abandon the healthy diet, crash, and her later state will be worse than the first.

I was engaging in a little levity, nevertheless, I must ask a question. What would she be cutting and running from at this point? She doesn’t see @Bartato as an available man. So, if he were to help her increase attractiveness and a suitor were to come along and pursue her and she went with the man, how would that reflect poorly on her character?
 
I must ask a question. What would she be cutting and running from at this point? She doesn’t see @Bartato as an available man. So, if he were to help her increase attractiveness and a suitor were to come along and pursue her and she went with the man, how would that reflect poorly on her character?
Oh yea, I agree with you that wouldn't reflect poorly on her now, but I guess I was thinking more down the road, where a more significant relationship might have developed along the health recovery path.
 
Oh yeah! I think @frederick has a great suggestion there. Any opportunity to take a leadership role in your kingdom is excellent, especially a spiritual leadership role, even for "visitors" in your kingdom.
 
@Bartato, I'm glad to hear of your already in-place healthy lifestyle. I've spent many years of my life being unhealthy... it's no fun at all, which is part of why I preach these things I've learned.


Note; The remaining portion of message was composed before I read Bartato's reply in #10, or Frederick's, and is mostly a reply to @Asforme&myhouse and @steve, followed by possible expansion on the topic. My message is perhaps less relevant after Bartato's message in #10, but I proffer it still in the hope that my remarks shall be beneficial to someone hereafter.


If she's going to cut and run after she gets healthy, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

Cutting and running is also a very real concern; people who are unhealthy think differently; not only from sub-optimum brain chemistry/nutrition, but also from a mindset, frustration, and limited options as a result of the physical problems of being unhealthy. Her life priorities and attitudes may change quite dramatically once she has more options from being more healthy. Case in point; being more healthy (physically attractive) will provide her with more options of men to chose from, and likely receive more male attention also. If she's going to go and run off with Chad, that's really good to know sooner rather than later. If she does that, I expect she will abandon the healthy diet, crash, and her later state will be worse than the first.

If she prefers to follow her belly rather than her man, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

If for some reason diet modification does not achieve health-improvement success, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

As I alluded to before, even if things don't "go anywhere", one has at least helped to improve another human being's life.

I'm not seeing the downside here, gentleman. :)



A mother's body processes her food, and, by extension; feeds her growing child she's carrying. If she's eating a poor diet, her child is eating a poor diet, and at the worst possible time; early development. If she's unhealthy, her body is obviously not working optimally, and thus can't be expected to support the development of a healthy child. I see many unhealthy mothers out there. and I don't recall ever seeing them having healthy children in tow, quite the opposite indeed. Contrast that with the occasional fit mother I see who appears to be wearing her gym clothes; her children look healthy and fit also. It's not just material/gestational diet, it's also what food she prepares and feeds to her children that also impacts their health. It is sadly common, but it is not normal for a woman's health and beauty to tank after she has children.

Desire for healthy offspring is one of the reasons men so heavily select for beautiful women. This drive was placed there by God, and why men almost universally find young women most attractive. What men consider as beautiful is driven in large part by outward indicators of physical health (typically best when when young), and by extension her ability to carry and bear healthy/strong offspring.

One could look at this from an "evolutionary" (ha!) perspective and what it takes for a species to survive, but the deleterious results of producing unhealthy offspring are visible in one generation right before our eyes. Not only is that offspring miserable, they also have reduced contribution of value to the betterment of society, and may even be a burden on society.

Men selecting for beautiful (healthy) women has a two-fold benefit to the species;
1) It slows the degradation of the species that results from unhealthy women producing unhealthy children.
2) encourages unhealthy women to improve their health.

Roughly the same process takes place with women selecting for successful/strong men who can provide for them; it drives men to achieve and be successful; both in life and with women.



Health and beauty is a complex topic, and more than just diet. Diet is perhaps easiest to change, and can fix the body, but poor facial structure is more difficult to fix, though not impossible.

Such a subtle thing as getting a gerbil precipitated the deterioration of this man's health :( That severely impacted the pool of women available to him. Notice what the Dr. says about seeing the white of the eye under the iris, and then look at...
hunter vs prey eyes.
https://i.imgur.com/DTbYmpg.png
Also take note of their radically different facial structure.

The hunter eyes apply to women also.
https://www.google.com/search?q=melania+narrow+eyes&tbm=isch
Melania's narrow eyes are perhaps a bit extreme, but the general idea applies.
And a counter example...
https://www.google.com/search?q=aoc+googly+eyes&tbm=isch

The same facial structure change applies to women also.
https://www.google.com/search?q=protruding+maxilla+women&tbm=isch
The side-by-side pictures show an amazing story, how much more attractive those women look with healthy facial structure; and that it's fixable!

One such facial restructuring technique is called Mewing, and people seem to have good success with, though easier when younger. There are no doubt many other methods.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mewing



Beauty is very quantifiable, and very closely tied to health.

Thanks for sharing all that with us. Beauty in most cases is a very direct reflection of the essence of a person.
 
@Bartato, I'm glad to hear of your already in-place healthy lifestyle. I've spent many years of my life being unhealthy... it's no fun at all, which is part of why I preach these things I've learned.


Note; The remaining portion of message was composed before I read Bartato's reply in #10, or Frederick's, and is mostly a reply to @Asforme&myhouse and @steve, followed by possible expansion on the topic. My message is perhaps less relevant after Bartato's message in #10, but I proffer it still in the hope that my remarks shall be beneficial to someone hereafter.


If she's going to cut and run after she gets healthy, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

Cutting and running is also a very real concern; people who are unhealthy think differently; not only from sub-optimum brain chemistry/nutrition, but also from a mindset, frustration, and limited options as a result of the physical problems of being unhealthy. Her life priorities and attitudes may change quite dramatically once she has more options from being more healthy. Case in point; being more healthy (physically attractive) will provide her with more options of men to chose from, and likely receive more male attention also. If she's going to go and run off with Chad, that's really good to know sooner rather than later. If she does that, I expect she will abandon the healthy diet, crash, and her later state will be worse than the first.

If she prefers to follow her belly rather than her man, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

If for some reason diet modification does not achieve health-improvement success, that's better to know sooner rather than later.

As I alluded to before, even if things don't "go anywhere", one has at least helped to improve another human being's life.

I'm not seeing the downside here, gentleman. :)



A mother's body processes her food, and, by extension; feeds her growing child she's carrying. If she's eating a poor diet, her child is eating a poor diet, and at the worst possible time; early development. If she's unhealthy, her body is obviously not working optimally, and thus can't be expected to support the development of a healthy child. I see many unhealthy mothers out there. and I don't recall ever seeing them having healthy children in tow, quite the opposite indeed. Contrast that with the occasional fit mother I see who appears to be wearing her gym clothes; her children look healthy and fit also. It's not just material/gestational diet, it's also what food she prepares and feeds to her children that also impacts their health. It is sadly common, but it is not normal for a woman's health and beauty to tank after she has children.

Desire for healthy offspring is one of the reasons men so heavily select for beautiful women. This drive was placed there by God, and why men almost universally find young women most attractive. What men consider as beautiful is driven in large part by outward indicators of physical health (typically best when when young), and by extension her ability to carry and bear healthy/strong offspring.

One could look at this from an "evolutionary" (ha!) perspective and what it takes for a species to survive, but the deleterious results of producing unhealthy offspring are visible in one generation right before our eyes. Not only is that offspring miserable, they also have reduced contribution of value to the betterment of society, and may even be a burden on society.

Men selecting for beautiful (healthy) women has a two-fold benefit to the species;
1) It slows the degradation of the species that results from unhealthy women producing unhealthy children.
2) encourages unhealthy women to improve their health.

Roughly the same process takes place with women selecting for successful/strong men who can provide for them; it drives men to achieve and be successful; both in life and with women.



Health and beauty is a complex topic, and more than just diet. Diet is perhaps easiest to change, and can fix the body, but poor facial structure is more difficult to fix, though not impossible.

Such a subtle thing as getting a gerbil precipitated the deterioration of this man's health :( That severely impacted the pool of women available to him. Notice what the Dr. says about seeing the white of the eye under the iris, and then look at...
hunter vs prey eyes.
https://i.imgur.com/DTbYmpg.png
Also take note of their radically different facial structure.

The hunter eyes apply to women also.
https://www.google.com/search?q=melania+narrow+eyes&tbm=isch
Melania's narrow eyes are perhaps a bit extreme, but the general idea applies.
And a counter example...
https://www.google.com/search?q=aoc+googly+eyes&tbm=isch

The same facial structure change applies to women also.
https://www.google.com/search?q=protruding+maxilla+women&tbm=isch
The side-by-side pictures show an amazing story, how much more attractive those women look with healthy facial structure; and that it's fixable!

One such facial restructuring technique is called Mewing, and people seem to have good success with, though easier when younger. There are no doubt many other methods.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mewing



Beauty is very quantifiable, and very closely tied to health.

Eye4them,
Wow! That was a fascinating post. I didn't realize that a lot of facial beauty was environmental and somewhat correctable like that. I just assumed it was mainly genetic.

We all like to look more attractive, and appearance really does point to being able to produce and provide for healthy children (both from a female and male perspective). We want to produce healthy offspring.

It is interesting how men and women tend to match up with someone roughly comparable to themselves in terms of attractiveness.

Female attractiveness is fairly simple and straightforward. Beauty and youth are most important. Then, femininity and a pleasant and agreeable personality follow up.

What makes an attractive man is more complex. Sure, physical appearance is an important factor, but not to the extent that it is with women. Confidence is extremely important for men. Diligence and competence are also factors. Social status is very important, as is financial status and the ability to provide.

Women want to be with the type of men that other men admire, want to be around, and to follow.

Relationships are strained when there is a substantial disparity in attractiveness. Say a man and a woman who are both 7 on a scale of 1-10 get married. Then the husband gains 40 pounds, and his career goes nowhere. Now, he might be a 5 (and if he starts talking about Biblical polygyny he is a 3). At the same time, the wife started eating better and working out at the gym. Now she is an 8.5. That 3.5 difference is huge. She will be tempted to run off with a fitter man at the gym, or a more financially successful man.

On the other hand, let's say the wife gains 40 pounds, and gets a negative attitude and starts withholding sex, while the husband works out, and also becomes a successful executive. Now he is a 9 and she is a 4. He may be tempted to run off with his young secretary.

One of the potential benefits of polygyny is that it allows a woman to potentially shoot out of her class.

In monogamy world man who is a 7 will only marry a woman who is a 6 or a 7. A woman who is a 5 will have no chance with him. As a second or third wife, this woman who is a 5 could very possibly marry a man who is an 8.

Look at that woman hollywood superstar Arnold had a baby with.

Any men who would like to have more than one wife should probably do what they can to move up in terms of fitness, confidence, status, and wealth.

Are we such excellent men that a woman would prefer to share one of us rather than have a lesser man all to herself?
That should motivate us.
 
I just go back to the advice a wise farmer (I think) gave in one of Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels. Something to the effect of:
"Don't marry for looks. Marry a woman who can cook. Because looks will fade, but cooking will only get better."

I think @eye4them is grabbing one tiny detail and making a giant tangent out of it. Not that I necessarily disagree with anything he's saying - health is important. But it's really a sidetrack of this discussion, and in case she is God's gift to you I wouldn't go looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you did end up marrying her, and you then decided to all get healthy, having two women who could cook well would make that whole journey a lot more palatable.
 
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