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Economics in one 30' lesson

andrew

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Been reading and enjoying Ray Dalio's Principles, wherein he brought attention to this video he produced a couple of years ago. We've been talking recently about training our sons, and understanding how debt works and staying away from consumer debt to live beyond your means would be one of the most important things we could be teaching them (right up there with not marrying the wrong woman or for the wrong reasons).

Submitted for your consideration: How the Economic Machine Works in 30 Minutes
 
Don't have time to watch it atm, but I was thinking about debt the other day, in light of the other thread discussing vows. It struck me that a debt really is just another type of vow, though we rarely seem to frame it that way. Looking at it that way, since it's better not to vow, it makes you stop and think about governments, organizations and individuals who willingly take on large amount of debt, and how much they value their word.
 
It is my contention that a Christian should not go into any debt. But most will not agree if for no other reason than it is perceived to be impossible in todays society.

The problem isn't the vow, but that you enslave yourself to the lender and there are significant societal costs to debt.
 
It is my contention that a Christian should not go into any debt. But most will not agree if for no other reason than it is perceived to be impossible in todays society.

The problem isn't the vow, but that you enslave yourself to the lender and there are significant societal costs to debt.
I tend to agree with you. Cars, clothes...consumer stuff is not worth going into debt over.

Houses, though, are another thing. Trying to pay for one of those might be near impossible in some areas.
 
It is my contention that a Christian should not go into any debt. But most will not agree if for no other reason than it is perceived to be impossible in todays society.
I haven't watched the above video, I'm just replying to this comment.
Samuel has 2 rules. 1. Do whatever it takes to not have to borrow or go into debt in any way at all. 2. If we do have to go into debt, then we must be able to pay it back within 7 years.
At first I thought he was bonkers, and I fought him on this quite a bit, but funnily enough it's all worked out. We have a home, we have 3 vehicles, we have land with an orchard, and we are not remotely rich. Instead we've done things as cheaply as possible, and paid back any money we had to borrow as quick as possible. It is possible to own a home without being in debt 7 years later, but you have to rethink what 'home' means. Maybe it doesn't mean owning your own land outright. Maybe it means having solar power, a compost toilet, a grey water system, and lots of hard work to get it to a point that's liveable. We are blessed in that we have family owned land available to lease, but other people are blessed in other ways and have other options available, you just have to think outside the box.
Also - barter. Seriously, that's how we have gotten a tonne of our stuff, including a car and a fireplace.
 
Has anybody actually watched the video yet?...
 
I did watch it tonight. The first two thirds of it seems a pretty standard explanation of basic econiomics that I've heard before, though necessary to lay the groundwork. Last third (long term debt cycles) is where things got a bit counterintuitive, at least for my primitive understanding. Something about how everyone paying off debt leads to slower income, leads to faster growing debt. I guess it's a bit unexpected (like how burning a rocket engine while in orbit boosts your altitude, leading to your velocity slowing). And then they move into justifying inflation, which I've tended to view as a form of unjust, "unequal balances". I'll say that they were successful in planting in my mind the possibility that inflation might have a positive benefit to keep things "in balance", but I'm still super skeptical of that, and would probably need to watch it again to absorb what that argument is.

At any rate, the final model, and the advice to keep productivity growth > income growth > debt growth seems pretty solid. Work hard and don't overspend.
 
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Brings to mind Proverbs 22:7; The rich rules over the poor, And the borrower is servant to the lender.
Teach our kids not to be in servitude to the credit card companies or bank.
 
I'll be rolling it for my household tomorrow night. Good basic introduction in a straightforward presentation over a reasonable amount of time.
 
I'll be rolling it for my household tomorrow night. Good basic introduction in a straightforward presentation over a reasonable amount of time.
Planning to play it for my boys, too.
 
Both wives have watched it now and one wants to watch it again, but with me this time. She said its the best thing she's ever seen and she can even understand it! :rolleyes:
 
Ok finally found a break to watch it. This is an economic critique, not Biblical one...

First to his credit, he bases the model around debt's influence on the economy. This is simply revolutionary in modern economic thought, which basically writes off the affect of debt on the economy. So far as it goes, it is very useful, and with good production value. If you are not familiar with market cycles and economics this is a really good intro.

However he leaves out a a few important things and has some implicit biases that are useful to be aware of.

The affect of supply and demand on rising prices is ignored; attributing price changes to credit and deflation. This isn't always the case and there are places where supply and demand are very important.

He makes it sound like credit is a good thing because it grows the economy. It's not.

In the first place, the need to grow the economy is only an economic necessity because we have interest bearing debt. Interest means the money supply HAS to grow or the debt can't be repaid. Growth is the Holy Grail of economic thought, but that is because it is required for debt based economies to function and it is inflationary, which increases the asset values of the rich.

Second, a lot of spending will happen irregardless of credit. For example: housing, food, travel, etc. All debt does is artificially increase the price of these goods. People who otherwise couldn't buy, and never will be able to so demand shifting is harmful to them, get it. Relatively fixed supply with increased demand means prices must go up. And since the money is 'free' people are willing to pay more and sellers willing to hold out for more.

So what that does is artificially increase the cost of survival for everyone and necessitate everyone goes into debt to get buy, even if they wouldn't have needed it before. This is why our grandfathers could buy a home for cash with a blue collar job and today even white collar workers have no hope of a home purchase without a 30 year loan. Without the ability to mortgage a house, we'd all still live in houses, we'd just be able to pay for them without debt. Now replicate that across the whole economy. Debt begets the need for more debt and everyone working harder than necessary for the benefit not of ourselves or our children but the bankers.

Another thing, he makes it sound like debt is someone giving you a real thing or saved money in exchange for a debt instrument. Its not. Mostly its a banker creating those funds out of thin air with a stroke on the keyboard. No work done nor assets put up. To the extent assets are put up for loans it is via people's bank savings which are then leveraged several orders of magnitude into debt.

He is right about credit creating bubbles and busts but as I point out above, this is all for not. It needn't be that way. All this economic pain and agony is solely so the financial class can siphon off our profits; simply parasitic behavior. Notice, the financial services industry represents around 30% of corporate profits. That is pure cost to the economy. Rent seeking for no tangible benefit. This whole thing, this cycle, is only to the benefit of the bankers, not any of us.

Another thing, he makes it sound like the inflationary cycles are due to the affect of demand shifting on prices. That is somewhat true. But he glosses over the point that credit creation, being money creation, is itself inherently inflationary. Supply and demand and the supply of money has grown while supply of goods has not. Now thats not always true, factories can churn out more products. But for many necessities the supply and available demand is relatively fixed so increasing the money supply can only increase prices.

Now while he is good to focus on credits affect on markets. There are other cycles that don't relate to debt but because increased demand raises prices, which then attracts new producers to the market until the point there is too much supply which then crashes prices. This is caused by a lack of market information, poor planning and poor decisions; classic mania. These still exist without debt but these cycles and bubbles are smaller and slower to build because debt allows more people to get in and faster and in a bigger way and people are more likely to take foolish bets because it feels like free money.

He talks about have and have nots. These credit fueled economic cycles exacerbates the economic disparities. The pareto principle means there will always be disparities, but debt means they are bigger and for the have nots, worse off because they live in an impossible situation of needing debt just to survive and what they do have is worth less.

You will notice first two methods for fixing things he calls bad and deflationary; but not the government buying debt and spending money. This is the standard banker line. It increases the power of bankers over the country. It is essentially the country selling out to the bankers to fix the problem the bankers themselves caused. I would expect nothing less from a Hedge Fund manager because debt restructuring is the one of the four that most directly hurts his bottom line whereas government printing and stimulus buying fatten his pockets.

Thing to remember is that debt restructuring does't mean that the bartender doesn't get paid for his whole beer and be able to pay suppliers. It means that the bank only gets repaid for part of the money they conjured out of nothing. Debt restructuring doesn't necessarily reduce spending, a lot of that is money that is flowing into credit markets. Investments. Pure rent seeking profit. So restructuring this debt does help because it frees up cash flow for spending on real goods.

He mentions depressions leading to war. This is basically just vealed threat that war happens if you don't deleverage how we say. What he doesn't mention is that war isn't just some unfortunate aftereffect of bad economies. War is often specifically caused by the central bankers enforcing their will on nations; whether when a country defaults or threatens to default or when a country threatens to leave (or not join) their system. Many, if not most, of the wars of the 20th and 21st century had this as one of the root causes, if not THE root cause.

A few other things he fails to mention.... you will often see asset inflation during deflationary periods as investors chase safe harbors of money. This occurred starting in '01 and in part made the boom last until '08. The problem is, this only puts off the inevitable and makes the bust worse.

Also, his fails to mention commodity markets, which includes a lot of the things pictured in his economic gears like corn, oil, etc. These have slightly different behavior than he mentions and have natural cycles because over time, the average price of the market falls to just below cost of production. These markets only recover when enough producers go out of business. These busts are sharp because it only takes a small % oversupply to tank the market. This has more to do with supply and demand and commodity pricing than debt. If you are an entrepreneur or a policy maker you need to understand these markets. Most people don't. Some of you here are into homesteading/farming; you absolutely need to understand commodity market economics.

Lastly there is the issue of oil dollars and narco dollars. If you really want to understand what drives our economy you have to understand those. I'll refer you to Catherine Austin Fitts for that.
 
I put this separate because it is so useful. The video doesn't really go into the fundamental nature of money and bankers. For an informative and funny explanation of this I highly highly recommend "Wheat Receipts" by Dr Stuart Crane. It is hard to find but you can get it here. It is a great explanation about the nature of money and monetary system really works and also goes into the aforementioned war issue.
 
All good points (I think... I was reading quickly), but sort of outside the scope of a 30' overview. And while a lot of your points are things we would all agree on and would like to see our policy wonks and legislators take account of, Dalio's focus was on how the 'machine' actually works, not how it should work. If we understand this basic model, we can build on it and critique it as we are able, but we have to start somewhere.

Most important, I find that most of the people I talk with have a basic Econ 101 understanding of the effects of supply and demand on pricing, but aren't as up to speed on debt cycles and the effects of debt creation, short- and long-term debt cycles, and how they drive policy as well as individual spending decisions.

My hope is that most people will get the takeaway Dalio intended and Shibboleth got: focus on increasing your productivity over your lifetime, don't get sucked in by easy credit and low interest rates when everybody's in a party mood, and assuming you got the first two right and you're not over-extended when times get tight, look for bargains when credit is tight and cash is king.
 
Some of what I wrote like commodity economics is outside the scope. But my more important points are targeting his underlying banker assumptions about debt, its necessity and the appropriate measures for dealing with the market deleverage.

But I agree it is a good overview of the affect of debt on the markets. To lean more about the banking/debt/economic system itself, I highly highly recommend Wheat Receipts. It is a good companion to this video.
 
Agreed with one tiny quibble: I don't think Dalio thinks what he thinks because he's a hedge fund manager or just a "banker economics" groupie. I don't know the man personally and am not his advocate, but I'm reading his book, and as much as you can get to know an author through their work, I believe that he became a successful money manager because he set out to study and analyze market systems as they are. He's just not interested in market reform as much as in understanding how markets work so he can profit from them. And he's done very well at that, which is some evidence that he's figured things out correctly.

Illustration: I don't know if he's making "banker assumptions" about the necessity of debt as much as he's just reporting "this is how it works in my experience". If we ever have meaningful regime change then he'll have to come up with a new model, and my sense is that he knows that.

I may have misinterpreted some of what you said above, and I'm not really arguing with you as much as thinking out loud and sharing some observations. I look forward to checking out Wheat Receipts.
 
Hey guys, thank you very much for the added input. I'd recommend Dave Ramsey's very practical ideas regarding money management and getting out of debt be part of the follow up here.
 
I watched it. Like with most things, after exposing my children to it, (or perhaps during) I would interject my own spin on it. I think it's a good baseline to understand the market workings as it is, without regard to whether or not that's a good thing.

I appreciated his takeaway points at the end. I think they mirror my advice to my children. Especially "do everything you can to increase your productivity". (or whatever your hands find to do, do it with all your might.... or let not your hands be idle in the evening)
 
Ya @andrew, you'd have a better insight into him having read his book. It is hard to say from just that one video. I was critiquing the ideas more than the man. I didn't say that to accuse him of wrong motives per say. It's more a, that is the paradigm of his industry and people often have a hard time seeing things their paycheck requires them not to notice.

The big thing with debt is it rewards impulsivity and short time horizons. It is better to have long timer horizons. In other words, work hard/more productive now to save for things rather than mortgage the future (which we aren't guaranteed) and then have to work hard to dig out of the hole in service to the banker. We never know what God might have planned for us.
 
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