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Does Hebrews 13:4 require Christians to recognize legitimate polygynous unions?

B

Bartato

Seasoned Member
Real Person*
Male
I've been thinking about Hebrews 13:4 and how it may apply to polygyny.

Here is the verse in NASB and NKJV respectively.

"Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

I believe this verse positively COMMANDS Christians to honor all Biblically lawful marriages as actual legitimate marriages.

The Law and the Prophets clearly teaches that polygyny is marriage, not alultery or sexual immorality. I believe that Christ and His apostles (notably Paul in Romans and 1 Corinthians) teach consistently with this understanding.

In short, the whole Bible treats polygyny as marriage. This verse would then require all believers to honor it as legitimate.

A few months ago, I had a major heart change regarding the issue of polygyny. I am now much less enthusiastic about it than I was before (and much less enthusiastic about it than many men here).

I now believe monogyny is generally preferable. I don't think polygyny is something my heart should crave, and I have submitted this desire to the Lord Jesus Christ.

My beliefs on the subject do not change God's Law. God has declared polygyny to be marriage. He has good reason for declaring it to be marriage. There must be times where polygyny is preferable to whatever other options exist.

I believe that means He also requires me (and everyone else) to treat it as legitimate.

Some Christians know that the Bible treats polygyny as marriage, and will argue that it isn't "ideal", isn't "God's intention at creation", or somehow isn't God's best".

There may or may not be something to those arguments.

That still doesn't change the Law of marriage given in the Bible.

Loads of marriages aren't "ideal" for one reason or another but are nonetheless legitimate marriages. Moreover polygyny is clearly preferable to many of these "non-ideal" marriages (that the church already accepts as legitimate).

I believe Christians are not allowed to use the "not ideal" argument as a basis for prohibition. Hebrews 13:4 requires us to honor marriage, and polygyny is marriage.

A pastor or other church leader can advise his parishioners against polygyny, but I do not believe he can "command" them not to engage in it.

Church leaders (or members) MAY NOT disfellowship or practice church discipline against members who engage in polygyny, even if they do so contrary to the advice given by church leaders.

We all know that many churches will still do this, but I believe that it is an act of rebellion against the King.
 
Bartato said:
I now believe monogyny is generally preferable.
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My dear brother, God doesn't give a preference, number, or limitation. There isn't a word for monogamy or polygyny; it's just a man taking a woman to be his. We have to get numbers out of our heads and have the mind of Christ about this and everything else God says.

Proverbs 18:22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing, And obtains favor from the Lord. Delight in God's favour with any woman you have.
 
frederick said:
My dear brother, God doesn't give a preference, number, or limitation. There isn't a word for monogamy or polygyny; it's just a man taking a woman to be his. We have to get numbers out of our heads and have the mind of Christ about this and everything else God says.

Proverbs 18:22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing, And obtains favor from the Lord. Delight in God's favour with any woman you have.
Click to expand...

You understand that the words "generally" and "preferable" contain a great deal of flexibility, but can still describe something real.

We know that God gave David multiple wives and that this was good and holy. God gave Adam one, and that was also good and holy.

Let's step away from the mono-poly topic for a second.

If a 20 year old woman marries a 50 year old man, the marriage is legitimate, good, and holy in God's sight.

Nonetheless, I will still say that it is "generally preferable" for a 20 year old woman to marry a man aged 25-30 instead of 50.

There are tons of exceptions to "generally preferable".
 
Theology aside, I just want to speak to the change of heart, and encourage you. You do what God has placed on your heart to do, nothing more, nothing less, and that will be your "ideal" because that is what He will give you strength and faith to do. I applaud you as a fellow servant for your service to our Master, as well as for recognizing the service of others which may be different from what He has called you to do. I hope you remain here. I hope you never stop growing in faith and stature. Wherever He sends you, I pray that you may be an encouragement to all the brothers.
 
Bartato said:
If a 20 year old woman marries a 50 year old man, the marriage is legitimate, good, and holy in God's sight.

Nonetheless, I will still say that it is "generally preferable" for a 20 year old woman to marry a man aged 25-30 instead of 50.
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Where I am living 20 year old women generally prefer men closer to 50 years old instead of 25-30. Each to his own but God gives no instruction as to His preference. Shalom
 
NVIII said:
Theology aside, I just want to speak to the change of heart, and encourage you. You do what God has placed on your heart to do, nothing more, nothing less, and that will be your "ideal" because that is what He will give you strength and faith to do. I applaud you as a fellow servant for your service to our Master, as well as for recognizing the service of others which may be different from what He has called you to do. I hope you remain here. I hope you never stop growing in faith and stature. Wherever He sends you, I pray that you may be an encouragement to all the brothers.
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Thanks for the word of encouragement 👍
By the way, if the Lord Jesus Christ wants me to have more than one wife, He can bring it to pass, and I will gratefully receive what He gives. I don't believe I should seek one. If He gives me one while I'm seeking Him, then I will praise Him. If He does not, then I will praise Him.
 
NVIII said:
You do what God has placed on your heart to do, nothing more, nothing less, and that will be your "ideal" because that is what He will give you strength and faith to do.
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Amen
“generally preferable” still casts shade, something that is totally unnecessary.
frederick said:
My dear brother, God doesn't give a preference,
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I’m taking your phrase out of its context and making a different point. Thanx for letting me borrow it.
Yah does have a preference for the women. That would be that they all have righteous husbands. If they have to share in order to make that happen, then He has the preference that men step up to the plate and quit themselves as men.

If a man is not righteous, His preference would probably be that they not attempt to lead any family at all
 
steve said:
Yah does have a preference for the women. That would be that they all have righteous husbands. If they have to share in order to make that happen, then He has the preference that men step up to the plate and quit themselves as men.

If a man is not righteous, His preference would probably be that they not attempt to lead any family at all
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That is a far higher level than what I was talking about with "generally preferable" from a human point of view.

Here you are talking about the will of God. Undoubtedly it is far better for multiple women to share a righteous husband than for them each have their own ungodly husband.

I strongly agree with you there.
 
Bartato said:
I've been thinking about Hebrews 13:4 and how it may apply to polygyny.

Here is the verse in NASB and NKJV respectively.

"Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

I believe this verse positively COMMANDS Christians to honor all Biblically lawful marriages as actual legitimate marriages.

The Law and the Prophets clearly teaches that polygyny is marriage, not alultery or sexual immorality. I believe that Christ and His apostles (notably Paul in Romans and 1 Corinthians) teach consistently with this understanding.

In short, the whole Bible treats polygyny as marriage. This verse would then require all believers to honor it as legitimate.

A few months ago, I had a major heart change regarding the issue of polygyny. I am now much less enthusiastic about it than I was before (and much less enthusiastic about it than many men here).

I now believe monogyny is generally preferable. I don't think polygyny is something my heart should crave, and I have submitted this desire to the Lord Jesus Christ.

My beliefs on the subject do not change God's Law. God has declared polygyny to be marriage. He has good reason for declaring it to be marriage. There must be times where polygyny is preferable to whatever other options exist.

I believe that means He also requires me (and everyone else) to treat it as legitimate.

Some Christians know that the Bible treats polygyny as marriage, and will argue that it isn't "ideal", isn't "God's intention at creation", or somehow isn't God's best".

There may or may not be something to those arguments.

That still doesn't change the Law of marriage given in the Bible.

Loads of marriages aren't "ideal" for one reason or another but are nonetheless legitimate marriages. Moreover polygyny is clearly preferable to many of these "non-ideal" marriages (that the church already accepts as legitimate).

I believe Christians are not allowed to use the "not ideal" argument as a basis for prohibition. Hebrews 13:4 requires us to honor marriage, and polygyny is marriage.

A pastor or other church leader can advise his parishioners against polygyny, but I do not believe he can "command" them not to engage in it.

Church leaders (or members) MAY NOT disfellowship or practice church discipline against members who engage in polygyny, even if they do so contrary to the advice given by church leaders.

We all know that many churches will still do this, but I believe that it is an act of rebellion against the King.
Click to expand...
These days we can’t even get Christian’s to recognize Christ, never mind polygyny.
 
Bartato said:
I've been thinking about Hebrews 13:4 and how it may apply to polygyny.

Here is the verse in NASB and NKJV respectively.

"Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

I believe this verse positively COMMANDS Christians to honor all Biblically lawful marriages as actual legitimate marriages.

The Law and the Prophets clearly teaches that polygyny is marriage, not alultery or sexual immorality. I believe that Christ and His apostles (notably Paul in Romans and 1 Corinthians) teach consistently with this understanding.

In short, the whole Bible treats polygyny as marriage. This verse would then require all believers to honor it as legitimate.

A few months ago, I had a major heart change regarding the issue of polygyny. I am now much less enthusiastic about it than I was before (and much less enthusiastic about it than many men here).

I now believe monogyny is generally preferable. I don't think polygyny is something my heart should crave, and I have submitted this desire to the Lord Jesus Christ.

My beliefs on the subject do not change God's Law. God has declared polygyny to be marriage. He has good reason for declaring it to be marriage. There must be times where polygyny is preferable to whatever other options exist.

I believe that means He also requires me (and everyone else) to treat it as legitimate.

Some Christians know that the Bible treats polygyny as marriage, and will argue that it isn't "ideal", isn't "God's intention at creation", or somehow isn't God's best".

There may or may not be something to those arguments.

That still doesn't change the Law of marriage given in the Bible.

Loads of marriages aren't "ideal" for one reason or another but are nonetheless legitimate marriages. Moreover polygyny is clearly preferable to many of these "non-ideal" marriages (that the church already accepts as legitimate).

I believe Christians are not allowed to use the "not ideal" argument as a basis for prohibition. Hebrews 13:4 requires us to honor marriage, and polygyny is marriage.

A pastor or other church leader can advise his parishioners against polygyny, but I do not believe he can "command" them not to engage in it.

Church leaders (or members) MAY NOT disfellowship or practice church discipline against members who engage in polygyny, even if they do so contrary to the advice given by church leaders.

We all know that many churches will still do this, but I believe that it is an act of rebellion against the King.
Click to expand...
Great point, well supported by 1 Tim. 4.

1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
3men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
5for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
 
PeteR said:
Great point, well supported by 1 Tim. 4.

1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
3men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
5for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
Click to expand...

Fixed it for ya 👍🏻 😉
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Fixed it for ya 👍🏻 😉
Click to expand...
Some things you call 'food' are neither called 'food' nor 'sanctified by means of the word of God'... 😊

Future prophecy: Isaiah 66:15-17...
 
… Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭11‬-‭13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
Bartato said:
I now believe monogyny is generally preferable.

Some Christians know that the Bible treats polygyny as marriage, and will argue that it isn't "ideal", isn't "God's intention at creation", or somehow isn't God's best".

There may or may not be something to those arguments.
Click to expand...
Why do you believe monogamy is preferable. What scripture can you point to that leads you to believe it's preferable. I don't see that.

What is there that leads you to believe monogamy was God's intention at creation, when polygamy is clearly endorsed elsewhere. There is nothing anywhere that even hints at God's original intent, so that is just an opinion.

Would love for you to unpack why you feel these views are valid.
 
NBTX11 said:
Why do you believe monogamy is preferable. What scripture can you point to that leads you to believe it's preferable. I don't see that.

What is there that leads you to believe monogamy was God's intention at creation, when polygamy is clearly endorsed elsewhere. There is nothing anywhere that even hints at God's original intent, so that is just an opinion.

Would love for you to unpack why you feel these views are valid.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I was not clear with that phrase "generally preferable". I don't intend it to be a moral or legal category, binding anyone's behavior. I am using it as a category of common sense guidance.

There are many exceptions, where particular circumstances will override this guidance.

I have repeatedly stated that polygyny is marriage, not adultery or sexual immorality. Those are legal and moral categories defined by God's Law. I can show a mountain of Biblical evidence to support that.

Since God clearly regards polygyny as marriage, no civil governing authority, or ecclesiastical authority has authority to prohibit it.

When I talk about "generally preferable", I'm largely talking about my opinion (which has no authority to bind another man's conscience, or even my own).

Since I am talking about my opinion, and not controlling anyone, I don't think I necessarily have to show Biblical proof to support it.

Let me give another example. I think it is "generally preferable" to marry someone of the same nationality as one self. All things being equal, I think that usually makes sense from a practical viewpoint.

It is also totally legitimate to marry someone of another nationality. Individual circumstances vary, and also have to be considered.

I myself married a woman of a different nationality, and after 24 years of marriage, I am very glad I did. She is a very good wife and I love her very much (FWIW she is Japanese and I am American).

I am a man and she is a woman (check).
We are both Christians and wanted to follow Jesus (check). We loved each other and wanted to marry (check). Her father gave us his permission and blessing to marry (check).

"Generally preferable" frequently gets overruled.

I'll try to think about and write up my reasons for thinking monogamy to be "generally preferable".

Don't take it too seriously, I also believe polygamy would benefit some people, and that may be a reason God permits it. He clearly does.
 
This whole thread was immediately derailed from the very first response into a debate over @Bartato's views on monogamy vs polygamy. That is quite beside the point.
Bartato said:
"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

I believe this verse positively COMMANDS Christians to honor all Biblically lawful marriages as actual legitimate marriages.
Click to expand...
I had not noticed this before, and I believe you are correct. Thankyou @Bartato, that could be a very useful reference for people in many situations involving interaction with other Christians and churches.
 
FollowingHim said:
This whole thread was immediately derailed from the very first response into a debate over @Bartato's views on monogamy vs polygamy. That is quite beside the point.

I had not noticed this before, and I believe you are correct. Thankyou @Bartato, that could be a very useful reference for people in many situations involving interaction with other Christians and churches.
Click to expand...
We do tend to derail quite often around here, and I probably could have avoided it by not mentioning the topic of my opinion.😁
 
I even saw his opinion as practical and valid. Most people are going to be happy at that point of having found someone to love who loves them back and wants to do life together. The sheer improbability of finding a third that is compatible and open to joining a family makes it feel like an impossible dream....or hugely frustrating if it became a goal.
The knowledge is mainly relevant for men who already have two women interested (so they don't sin against one by dumping her for no good reason). .....and women that are open to sharing a good (but "taken") man.

I'm glad to have found someone my kind of crazy!.....but I would only knock monogamy only because it leaves too many women without. Marriage was pretty wonderful before.....and just as wonderful now!
 
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