Divorce & Remarriage...???

[rustywest4]

Soul searching, and therefore Scripture digging as I meditate on such things in my heart... My attempt mostly of course trying to understand God's heart on the matter as it is what truly matters! ...

Concerning divorce I know that God hates it! And I am pretty clear on the guidelines for it laid out in His Word ... Yet when considering the great grace we know our Lord to have (especially within the blessing of The New Covenant in Christ), I wonder about a few things personally!?!

Please allow me to give some hypothetical situations and then as brothers and sister in Yeshua, respond in love to help me with these troublesome thoughts...

Scenario:
*A man and his wife are unfaithful to each other by fornication and adultery. She divorces him.
Is he free to marry again?
Is she free to marry another?
Is he supposed to prayerfully be prepared for her to be reconciled to him anytime in the future?
If he marries another, should he still be prepared for his ex wife whom divorced him to possibly someday wish to be reconciled to him?

Other Questions:
If a man is abusive to his wife (or worse, the children) can she divorce him? Can she remarry another or must she remain unmarried til he dies? Would it be wrong for another man to take her as his wife and adopt her children?

*** I suppose my concern is more focused on remarriage, because it troubles me to think that a person who is under grace and repentant of sin yet living as a divorcee couldn't remarry!?!
If I'm honest I'd say that it breaks my heart to think remarriage wouldn't be a possibility when I see single moms who either were thrown away by their husbands or who chose to get out of an abusive relationship!?! If I'm even more honest I'd admit that I have a strong desire to scoop up such women and show them the love and affection they need and deserve, and to help raise up her precious children in a healthy godly home environment as a father they desperately need leading them!

Thank you very much for allowing me a place of fellowship to vent and wrestle with my thoughts and prayers amongst fellow believers in His great love! May God bless you BF friends of mine

-Rusty

 

[ylop]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

Hi Rusty.

They are good questions, and I would love to have clear answers for you, but I don't.

People have made reasoned biblically-based arguments for and against re-marriage.

I am not convinced of either side being correct.

To further complicate the matter, some Christian people make a big deal about "married" people but don't give one wit about the situation of people who lived together but didn't have a government marriage. Which covers most of the human race given the level of informal relationships that occur these days.

I just hope that mercy triumphs over judgement.

Cheers,

ylop

 

[UntoldGlory]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

You've got some sticky situations there, yes. I could make arguments for each of them on their own, but I think the heart of the matter is "when is it okay for people to remarry after divorce", is that correct?

Well, my answer to that, regardless of what caused the divorce in the first place, is: "Have they repented and been forgiven?" If so, then, in my humble opinion, yes, they are free to remarry. Paul, as Saul, persecuted Christians viciously, did that prevent him from becoming an Apostle? No. Why would we need a redeemer if there were nothing to be redeemed from?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we have Carte Blanche to go sin and pay lip service repentance, but a true repentance and forgiveness from our savior washes us clean, to "go forth and sin no more". Sure there will still be lingering consequences to our actions, but redemption from our savior and his grace is what makes us right with God. As the scriptures say, "No one is righteous-no, not one."

 

[Wesley]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

You've got some sticky situations there, yes. I could make arguments for each of them on their own, but I think the heart of the matter is "when is it okay for people to remarry after divorce", is that correct?

Well, my answer to that, regardless of what caused the divorce in the first place, is: "Have they repented and been forgiven?" If so, then, in my humble opinion, yes, they are free to remarry. Paul, as Saul, persecuted Christians viciously, did that prevent him from becoming an Apostle? No. Why would we need a redeemer if there were nothing to be redeemed from?

If (Note the "if") a particular divorce is a sin on the person (I hope that's clear) then Paul describes the method of repentance.

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

In other words the only way to repent from the sin of divorce is to reconcile the marriage.

Now the first line that I typed contained the annotation which paraphrased reads, 'if the sin is on the person.' Divorce is always sinful. There is no such thing as a "no-fault" divorce in God's eyes. It is always someone's fault. The question is, "Whose fault/sin is it?"

The following represents my belief, which is based on scripture, but is still only my own belief.

• If the man abuses or neglects his wife then...
  • he has divorced her by doing so no matter who files the court papers or who ends up leaving the house. (Exodus 21:10-11, 1 Timothy 5:8) The sin of divorce is his.
  • She is free to leave and do as she wishes, including remarrying, because it is his sin not hers.
• If the woman leaves because of a failure to submit to his way of doing things which would not have ended in serious abuse or neglect...
  • The sin is hers because she is required to submit to his leadership regardless of whether she believes that he (himself not her) is sinning or not. (1 Peter 3:1-6)
  • He is free to do as he wishes, including remarrying, because the sin of divorce is on her not on him.(1 Corinthians 7:15)

A key point is given in the phrase "himself not her."

• If he is interested in another woman, even if he is sinning (e.g. doing it for the wrong motive), she is not excused from submitting to him because that is his sin not hers. (1 Peter 3:1-6)
• If he directs her to do something sinful (e.g. prostituting herself) then he is guilty of abuse and she is free to leave and remarry. (1 Corinthians 7:15)

 

[yoderfamily]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

Oh rustywest!!!

I believe you have addressed the hearts of a lot of us on here. Understanding God's Heart is truly what matters.
As said earlier there are Scripture to support both sides but it is hard for me to put God in a box on this issue. My advice would be to walk on the side of caution as the ramifications are eternal not to mention a reaping of the fruits. ( a walk of listening to the Holy Spirit instead of emotions) I have seen high emotions on both sides of the aisle.

Blessing s to the search of truth.
Aaron

 

[The Revolting Man]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

Scripture seems to say that there is no permissible remarriage for a woman who divorces her husband (which remember is the last man she had sex with). There is also as I read it no remarriage for a man who divorces his wife unjustly, that is for reasons other than adultery. I believe the caveat is that if a believer is married to any unbeliever and the unbeliever leaves then the believer is not bound. I can look up the references but really an forum search on remarriage will reveal that this issue has been extremely well covered.

 

[Wesley]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

Scripture seems to say that there is no permissible remarriage for a woman who divorces her husband (which remember is the last man she had sex with). There is also as I read it no remarriage for a man who divorces his wife unjustly, that is for reasons other than adultery. I believe the caveat is that if a believer is married to any unbeliever and the unbeliever leaves then the believer is not bound. I can look up the references but really an forum search on remarriage will reveal that this issue has been extremely well covered.

I think that you may have overlooked this verse.

1 Timothy 5:8 NIV
8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Since abandonment is the ultimate neglect that means that any time a spouse (male or female) abandons their partner(s) the partner is free to remarry regardless of whether the guilty party claims to be a believer or not.

Personally, I believe that abuse or neglect constitutes divorce/abandonment so the victim is the one who is free to remarry as well.

 

[FollowingHim]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

A woman who has been divorced by her husband is free to remarry, this is indicated clearly in Deuteronomy 24:2. As I read it, it makes no difference whether she was justly or unjustly divorced - once released, she's free. If the man sinned in releasing her, that's on his head, it doesn't affect her.

But the matter of a woman divorcing her husband gets more complex.

Where this happened before she became a Christian, so she cannot be expected to have been following the Law, and now she is a "new creation", the old is gone... I think the slate was wiped clean with her coming to Christ and she's free to do as she feels God is leading her, be that remarry or attempt to reunite with her former husband.

Where a Christian woman chose to divorce her husband, that's where things get extremely difficult. Because the Bible does speak very clearly against this on one hand, but on the other we all know of situations where divorce seems the only rational and fair solution to free a woman from an abusive husband. I don't know the answer here, I am hesitant to be legalistic but equally hesitant to ignore the clear words of scripture. A lot of careful prayer is called for, and I expect each situation to be different.

 

[rustywest4]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

Thank u all so much for the honest input ! Great stuff here people

 

[FollowingHim]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

On our "Resources" page you will find a book by Dr William Luck entitled "Divorce & Remarriage: recovering the biblical view". This would be a very valuable read for anyone considering this issue as he has studied the topic in depth. I am not claiming his conclusions are necessarily correct, just saying this is an essential book to put on the reading list if you're trying to figure this out.
http://www.biblicalfamilies.org/links

There's some other good reading matter on that page too.

 

[Wesley]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

A woman who has been divorced by her husband is free to remarry, this is indicated clearly in Deuteronomy 24:2. As I read it, it makes no difference whether she was justly or unjustly divorced - once released, she's free. If the man sinned in releasing her, that's on his head, it doesn't affect her.

The same goes for the man. If the woman decides to leave then the man is free to remarry.

Where a Christian woman chose to divorce her husband, that's where things get extremely difficult. Because the Bible does speak very clearly against this on one hand, but on the other we all know of situations where divorce seems the only rational and fair solution to free a woman from an abusive husband. I don't know the answer here, I am hesitant to be legalistic but equally hesitant to ignore the clear words of scripture. A lot of careful prayer is called for, and I expect each situation to be different.

I've already posted what I labelled a a prophecy from the Holy Spirit so there's no point in hiding that I believe that the Holy Spirit has offered me guidance on this issue. Others are free to disagree however.

Expecting a woman to stay in an physically abusive or extremely neglectful situation would be a legalistic violation of the Second Greatest Commandment. That much is obvious. The egalitarians and matriarchal types have more than enough ammunition coming from their own imaginations without the Bible giving them more so God did not want any scripture that acknowledges a woman's "right" to divorce her husband however.

For this reason we have to actually understand and acknowledge the authority of the husband in order to understand why a woman can leave when she is abused or neglected.

The key point is to understand that when a man seriously abuses or neglects his wife he divorces her which leaves her free to leave and remarry. As Samuel observed when a man divorces his wife, regardless of reason or justification or lack of it, the woman is free to go and do as she pleases. (1 Corinthians 7:15 and 1 Timothy 5:8)

The scriptural evidence of this is in Exodus 21:10-11.

Here's the breakdown of the logic...

• • Given one: God will not allow sin.
  • Given two: God allows a woman to leave when abused or neglected. (Exodus 21:10-11)
• Conclusion one: It is not sinful for the woman to leave when abused or neglected.
  
  • Given three: God allows a woman to leave when abused or neglected.
    
  • Given four: The woman is not allowed to divorce her husband for any reason. (Mark 10:12, Romans 7:2-3)
• Conclusion two: The woman is divorced but she is not the one doing the divorcing.

Thus the divorce is still based on the husband's authority as the head of the household, and any resultant sin is his, but and the woman is free to do as she wishes. Thus the requirements of the Second Greatest Commandment have been met.

 

[FollowingHim2]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

The same goes for the man. If the woman decides to leave then the man is free to remarry.

The man is always free to marry someone else whether another woman is with him or not, hence - polygyny.

If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

This is in the case of a man taking another wife. It has no other relevance. It is not abuse. It's wrong and horrible but not what I would call abuse.
Please define abuse (I would define it as emotional, physical (hitting), sexual),and tell me how it equals divorce. I see that a woman can and should leave during that time, but as far as I'm aware the bible doesn't define it as divorce.
For example, if my husband decided to hit me right now because I haven't done the dishes yet, would that make us divorced?

Note: Samuel would never do this.

 

[Slumberfreeze]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

Right. Separating for a time, presumably to pray, but not a divorce.

 

[hannah.think]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

Interesting.

 

[Wesley]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

The same goes for the man. If the woman decides to leave then the man is free to remarry.

The man is always free to marry someone else whether another woman is with him or not, hence - polygyny.

Really? That's not what Christ said.

Matthew 19:9 NIV
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The way I read that serial monogamy, divorce and remarriage, is adultery even though polygyny is not.

If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

This is in the case of a man taking another wife. It has no other relevance. It is not abuse. It's wrong and horrible but not what I would call abuse.

By that standard the Second Greatest Commandment is only about not holding grudges. It's not really the Second Greatest Commandment it's just an admonition not to hold grudges.

Leviticus 19:17-18 NIV
17 “‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.

18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

So are you saying that Christ was wrong to declare this to be the Second Greatest Commandment, a broad sweeping principle rather than a narrow application to grudges, because the context is holding grudges therefore it is solely about holding grudges?

We are not under the law therefore we are not required to follow it. That does not mean that it is not a valid teaching tool however. (2 Timothy 3:16) Anything that is either commanded or permitted in the law is not sinful as God would neither command nor permit sin. Thus, since the Mosaic Law permits a woman to leave if she is abused or neglected that means that it is not sinful for her to do so.

Please define abuse (I would define it as emotional, physical (hitting), sexual),and tell me how it equals divorce. I see that a woman can and should leave during that time, but as far as I'm aware the bible doesn't define it as divorce.

While I am glad that Samuel would never hit you I refuse to address specific real life situations in an open forum. Whether the woman was actually abused or not is ultimately between her and God. I'm going to follow Matthew 7:1-5 on the issue rather than pass judgment on a woman.

Each woman should follow her own conscience on this issue. If a particular woman is so shallow as to leave because her husband looked at her funny (a gross exaggeration to make a point) then she's probably doing him a favor by leaving. On the other hand I see no reason to require a woman to stay in a relationship where she's in the ER twice a month with deliberately inflicted injuries either.

 

[FollowingHim]

Wesley, a man is always free to take an additional wife. Matthew 19:9 simply condemns divorcing the first in order to do so. Sure, once a man has divorced one to take another he is forbidden from taking another, but that is such a narrow situation that it is simply the exception that proves the rule. Sarah is correct.

Even if she were not correct, she still deserves to be talked to more politely than opening with a condescending and argumentative "Really? That's not what Christ says".

Lev 19:17-18 describes a broad sweeping principle. Even if it only mentioned grudges (which it does not) they themselves are a broad sweeping principle because you only hold a grudge about something. And that something could be anything. This is irrelevant.

But I do agree with you that we look to the law to find principles to follow, and it is right to use them as guidelines in cases they don't directly address but relate to. Your interpretation of this passage is interesting, it would be worth pondering the application of this to specific situations, provided this is done in the light of the many passages that speak against divorce and not taken as a single proof-text to justify a predetermined position.

 

[Wesley]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

...single proof-text to justify a predetermined position.

So if I don't agree with you then I'm "proof-text[ing]"?

Really?

That's exactly the kind of arrogant dismissiveness that caused me to to give Sarah such a sarcastic response. While I admit that was wrong of me (two wrongs don't make a right) I refuse to have a discussion with people who are so arrogant as to declare that either I have to agree with them or be wrong.

Have a nice day and God bless.

 

[FollowingHim]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

No, I never accused you of that at all. I actually said your thinking was very interesting, and worth considering. Yet you insist on seizing on something negative and taking it as a personal attack. THIS is why you end up in so many arguments here - nobody's trying to attack you, but whatever they say you find something to interpret as an attack.

We have a very wide readership here, including people who are looking from a very basic Biblical background. A strong role of myself, as the moderator, is to wherever necessary state the obvious things that need to be said to ensure that a reader who's looking at this for the first time will not take it out of context. What I write is often directed at "the public", not necessarily you. Here, I am ensuring it is clear that other readers should not use this as a proof-text.

Relax.

 

[UntoldGlory]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

...single proof-text to justify a predetermined position.

So if I don't agree with you then I'm "proof-text[ing]"?

Really?

That's exactly the kind of arrogant dismissiveness that caused me to to give Sarah such a sarcastic response. While I admit that was wrong of me (two wrongs don't make a right) I refuse to have a discussion with people who are so arrogant as to declare that either I have to agree with them or be wrong.

Have a nice day and God bless.

Sorry man, but that some serious pot calling the kettle black there. Pretty much every response you type to someone is you telling them how they're wrong because they don't share your view/interpretation. I really do like some of your insights and ideas, but I find myself skimming many of your posts because they're just overly defensive or attacking.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage...???

Alright, I'll say it. Somebody has to. Where does it say abuse is grounds for a divorce? I could understand it being a grounds for separation and certainly intervention by the church but as far as I can tell it is never even directly mentioned in the Bible, its a pretty big stretch to read an excuse for a divorce into that. I was under the impression that there was no biblical reason for a wife to divorce her husband.