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Conduct Unbecoming.....

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John Whitten wrote:
I see one major roadblock to the successful implementation of this proposal. It is the same roadblock that assails several other ideas for improvement of the status of plural marriages. That roadblock is INSUFFICIENT CHARACTER on the part of men and women interested in plural marriage. One of the reasons we have so much state involvement in marital issues is because far too many men and women have not been people of character. People that were men and women of their word. People that understood what truthfulness was and what commitment was. People that would stay in a relationship and give their all to make it work. People that would not cut and run when things became difficult. People that were willing to sacrifice their own personal well-being for the well-being of their family. Too many men are not willing to put in the hard work and sacrifice that leadership requires for a solid marriage. Too many women are unwilling to assume the blessed role designed by God for godly wives. Independence, pride, self-sufficiency and an unwillingness to trust their man in the same way they profess to trust God (but really don't).

I wanted to underscore what Pastor Whitten has said above.
I have been troubled by this exact situation for some time now. IMHO, I feel it is time that the Christian sector of "Poly World" step up to the plate and begin to employ greater integrity and character in their words, actions and within their families.

Since my own entrance into the Christian Polygyny movement; I've met some wonderful people. It has truly been a priveledge to get to know some of you. Unfortunately, I've also experienced some very negative situations. I have also had female friends share their own unpleasant experiences. A few examples would be....

1.) Receiving unsolicited sexually graphic messages on a social network from a prominent member of the Christian Polygyny movement.

2.) Being intentionally "outed" to a non-poly friend by another member of the Christian Polygyny movement because he was mad at me for a comment I made defending a friend of mine. He also deliberately used my real name online on several forums, even after I politely asked him not to.

3.) Pro-poly friends of mine (a husband, one wife and three children) were threatened by a well known member of the Poly community. He threatened to destroy the husband's livlihood and also made separate threats against the family.

4.) Another well known Christian Polygyny member routinely teaches on various forums that it is perfectly okay to hit your wives in order to discipline them. He tries to use the Bible verse, Proverbs 26:3 to justify this teaching. He also teaches that it's okay for men to not tell their existing wife/wives about marrying any subsequent wives.

5.) A married pro-poly female acquaintance told me about receiving messages from men telling her that it was God's will that she leave her husband and marry them. The last time I spoke to her she said she doesn't think she wants anything to do with the poly community.

6.) Several women who married into plural families only to be kicked to the curb because the first wife decided she couldn't live polygyny after all. Their husband caved to the demands of the first wife and sent the second wife packing.

7.) Another female acquaintance who was separated from her husband (and brand new to B.F.) received so many offers from men in just a few days that it scared her. She quickly left B.F. (She had also received a message from a man claiming God told him she was to marry him.)

8.) One woman claiming to be a Christian married into a plural family before divorcing her first husband.


This list is by no means exhaustive nor are the problems in the Christian Polygyny movement only related to female experiences. I have heard about men who were lied to and defrauded by women. Please don't misunderstand me. I love B.F. and I believe that it is a very valuable forum. I have always had good experiences with the B.F. staff. They have always been very responsive and caring in their communications with me. I do understand that we will never be able to stop all bad behavior and people need to use the brain that God gave them especially when dealing with online forums. I just strongly believe that it is time to be more proactive and clean up our act somewhat. Perhaps it's time for an official B.F. code of ethical conduct ?
As Christians I believe we need to set the bar a bit higher and set an example that God would be proud of.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Fairlight, thank you for sharing that list. I think it is very important to cite specific instances of bad conduct rather than talk in generalities. When I see that list, believe me it is not just the women who are driven away by such behaviour. That list is so not me it is almost ludicrous I want to be part of a movement that contains people acting like that. In my life I deliberately stay well clear of people like that. I like plain honourable people.

What is the solution?

Perhaps more openness and light?

These kind of problems breed best in an environment that is dark and behind closed doors.

ylop
 
it sadens me greatly that these events have occured.
there always has been wolves among the sheep.
other than hiring full time security for the board, i do not see a way to protect the innocent.
 
Information is the best defense. Thank you both Pastor and Fairlight for this.
 
My first thought was that since polygyny is biblical in nature it will always come under attack from the enemy.

My second thought is that many of the "Christians" I have met are anything but - at least in their behavior. I have pointed that out numerous times what a shame it is that the "Christian" community has higher numbers for teen sexual activity, premarital sex, and marital infidelity than the heathen community. "Many will say to me Lord, Lord...get away from me you workers of lawlessness." It is no wonder that "Christians" are labeled hypocrites almost automatically without thought.

Unfortunately this one/two punch is often lethal to our cause. I rest in knowing that God is in control, and that everything will work out according to His plan in His time. I simply try to make the best of the circumstances I find myself confronted with.
 
I just strongly believe that it is time to be more proactive and clean up our act somewhat. Perhaps it's time for an official B.F. code of ethical conduct ? As Christians I believe we need to set the bar a bit higher and set an example that God would be proud of

Indeed I am seeing at times what you are talking about as well with people's character, especially that of men who need to be standing firm in the Word as well as with other godly men (not alone as mavericks). Much of the issues revolve around a lack of character traits like integrity, courage, and humility.
 
Offhand, my answer would center around church community, church authority and church structure of governance. We are all subject to these sorts of failings. I don't pretend not to be open to such failings as you have enumerated myself. What keeps us away from them is constant submission to the LORD and his directions for our lives. There but for the Grace of God go I, but I am of the opinion that the greater the lack of discipline and structure in general in a group of Christians, the more likely this is to occur.
 
I agree completely, Hugh. While an online community is great, it is no substitute for a face-to-face church community where you have accountability and can't hide your true self so well.

The internet is the perfect venue for frauds and wolves in sheep's clothing, unfortunately.

Katie
 
I anticipate a turning of direction from the original post to endless discussion and blame pointing. The real issue, if I understand the OP is that of godly character. Character of both the persons involved in behaviors that may be less than godly and the character of those who observe such behaviors and allow them to go unchecked. To see someone misbehaving and taking advantage of the forum, individuals or the BF movement and do nothing or say nothing about it is to be a participant in the misbehaving. Someone famous said, "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
My quote and my understanding of the OP relates to what we can do, in our own lives (character development) and in the lives of others (guarding against misbehaving). Doing nothing is not an option. Let us not be pitchfork Christians that just fork over every issue on to the next stall for someone else. Let us keep our own stall in order that the whole house be functional and healthy.
A brother once told me in one of my youthful, carnal interludes, "John, you can't do God's work with the devil's tools." Ouch!!! It still stings as I am frequently reminded.
 
This is attributed to David Crockett, U.S. Congressman and defender of the Alamo, his motto, "Be sure you're right and then go ahead".
Someone else said character is not determined by what it takes to move a man, but by what it takes to stop him. My father, Larence T. Whitten was nicknamed "Reb" by his co-workers, he was also very strong willed (read stubborn :lol: ). I thought those two were closely related, but having a rebellious cause or nature is not synonymous with strong will. They are more often opposing traits. Dad demonstrated his strong will by providing for his family at great cost to him personally. I do not remember him as a quitter, in my eyes or his. He taught me to work when I didn't want to or feel up to it. He taught me that there is honor in honest labor and effort. Though he was a financially poor man, he was an honorable man and demonstrated to me many of the characteristics that are considered by Christians the world over to be traits of honor and godliness. He rarely attended church till the last years of his life, but he read his Bible intently. I am not raising my father to a level of manhood (posthumously) that is rare and unusual, but rather reflecting on characteristics of a day gone by. Yet, the traits that he demonstrated are available to men everywhere, in all times.
It is my conviction that most men today do not have much by way of real conviction because we have not been taught Crockett's motto. We do not know what is right and we have never (as a nation today) been given the permission to stand righteously on our convictions and tell the world or even our family, friends and associates that we will stand for what is right till hell freezes over. Such stubborn conviction has become unacceptable in our society. I know the Bible associates rebellion and witchcraft.
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
That is accurate when stubbornness is applied in rebellion against God, but stubbornness when applied to serving God in righteousness is called "faithfulness and perseverance." What we need is knowledge of what is right and then stand on that truth.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The above verse is not just for Bible students and preacher, but for every believer. Let us learn the Bible, really know what it says and not just a few verses and know where to find a concordance. Let us hide the Word in our hearts that we might not sin against God, that we may know where to stand. Then, having taken a righteous stand really stand and not be swayed. We must, if we will serve God, have something greater than ourselves to live for and even die for if necessary. God Himself is worthy of such commitment from us. His Word, entrusted to us, is worthy of the same. Old hymnals contain a song entitled "Standing on the Promises", song leaders and pastors have for many decades cautioned about "Sitting on the Premises." May we find something worth fighting and dying for and stubbornly take our stand! I heard Dr. Jack Hyles quote Bob Jones Sr, saying “Do right! Though the stars fall, do right!”. This is the message of character, this is the message of the Word of God, "Do right, no matter what anyone else does." Not just when it is convenient or when it is not too costly or only when it is popular or just when it is pleasurable or profitable, but when it is right and when God says to take a stand. This message was offered to the Corinthians, by God through Paul, "Quit you like men." Character is developed in the fires of trial and affliction. Let us embrace our difficulties and not flee from them. Let us thank God for that which will make us stronger and stand for Him as men of God.
 
well said. :)
 
AMEN! to Brother John's post. Another trait of good character is doing good even when no ones looking.
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
There's not enough accountability here.
 
Hi Fairlight and All,

For the past 12-13 years I've been involved in the CHRISTIAN-based polygamy movement. In that time I've seen all that Fairlight has seen and much, much more. Some of it has been worse, some hasn't been as bad, but all of it is dangerous to people in the polygamy movement and the polygamy movement itself.

If we who are in favor of polygamy cannot learn to work together to police ourselves, then we will gain neither acceptance, nor will be be allowed to police ourselves--the government will step in and I guarantee that will NOT be good for polygamy.

That is the pattern of government intervention throughout history. When people, organizations, and groups do not take care of their own problems, the government steps in, usually with mixed or negative results, and very infrequently with results that make everyone, nor even most everyone, happy.

Polygamy though, is not regulated, and is not a single organization. It is a number of various organizations, people, and groups, and isn't controlled or administered centrally by anyone. That makes it tough to deal with these issues. It makes it tough to self-regulate anything.

However, I do have some suggestions that may provide a solution to this problem...


(1) Organization to Provide Oversight Over Rules of Behavior for the Polygamy Movement and Polygamy Communities and Purpose. I would recommend that an Organization be set up to help provide and regulate Rules of Behavior for Member Christian-based and/or Biblically-based polygamy sites, groups, or organizations, for the benefit and safety of the polygamy community and polygamy movement.

Such organization will only have power to provide oversight and regulation over Rules of Behavior and Blacklisting such persons or sites, groups, or organizations which do not follow the Rules of Behavior, as agreed upon by Members of this Organization.

Such Organization will be a loosely-constructed organization with power only granted by the Member Christian-based and/or Biblically-based polygamy sites, groups, or organizations. It shall have no further powers, nor may it's charter allow any changes to expand its powers or authority beyond this scope at any time.

(2) Name. Well, the name could be anything, but it should reflect the purpose of said Organization to provide for the safety and benefit of the polygamy community and polygamy movement. Perhaps something like "Polygamy Safety and Friendship Establishment" (PSAFE) or "Safety In Polygamy Board" (SIPB). I know neither of those are that great, so I'll leave that up to whomever runs with this idea and makes it happen.

(3) Membership. Voting Membership should consist of the leadership of prominent Christian-based and/or Biblically-based polygamy sites, groups, or organizations. Membership should be limited to those sites, groups, or organizations self-identifying as "Christian" or by some similar standard. Secular organizations and other religious organizations may accept the rules of said Organization, but shall not be allowed to hold any authority within the Organization. Non-voting Members may include anyone that agrees and abides by the Rules of Behavior of this Organization.

(4) Board. The leadership of prominent Christian-based and/or Biblically-based polygamy sites, groups, or organizations shall elect a number of Board Members to be determined by the Voting Membership of the Organization. The Board shall be elected yearly and no Board Member shall serve more than two consecutive terms, nor more than four terms in total.

(5) Judgment over Rules of Behavior. We should handle problems in a manner like Jesus and Paul suggested in Scripture:

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have won your brother. But if he does not hear, take along with you one or two more, so that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. But if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the assembly. But if he refuses even to hear the assembly, let him be to you as a heathen and a tax collector. (Matthew 18:15-17)

Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person has been perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned. (Titus 3:10-11)

Now we are not dealing solely with Christians within these sites, groups or organizations, but this method should work if we all work together to enforce it.

Persons or groups disobeying the Rules of Behavior shall be blacklisted and banned from all Member sites, groups, and organizations.

(6) Blacklisting. Any person, group, organization, or site not abiding by the Rules of Behavior and judged to have broken the Rules shall be banned from all member sites either permanently or for a set time chosen by the Board, depending upon the specific issue in question and the severity of the issue, as determined by the Board. Specific rules to determine punishments may be determined by the Board.

(7) Rules of Behavior. The Rules of Behavior for this Organization shall be determined by the Board, based upon recommendation of both Voting Members and standard Membership. The Rules should be taken from practical examples drawn from the experiences with the various issues which have occurred within the polygamy communities and polygamy movement.

(8) Additional Rules of Behavior Adopted by Member Sites, Groups, and Organizations. Individual sites, groups, or organizations may have additional rules of behavior of their own, but shall not restrict or modify the agreed upon Rules of Behavior of this Organization, but shall abide by those Rules for the benefit and safety of the polygamy communities and polygamy movement.

(9) Logos, Artwork, and Badges. Logos, artwork, and badges for Voting Members websites and for the use of all Members shall be designed and provided by the Organization for use according to the terms chosen by the Board for the purpose of promoting the Rules of Behavior within the polygamy communities and the polygamy movement. On websites such logos, artwork, and badges will link to the Organization and the Rules.


Whether this will work or not, and whether Biblical Families and other sites will adopt these suggestions, I don't know. However, I will pledge my Yahoo Group, ChristianPolygamy2, to being a Member of this Organization and abiding by its Rules.

I believe this will work, and we can modify the Organization and its purpose as it grows and we discover any flaws or improvements that should be integrated into the Organization's bylaws, in order to make it work right.

Think of this as the equivalent of a public non-profit organization like a "United Nations" for polygamy--in only the good ways, of course, and with less power in its sphere.

Friends, please leave me feedback on this idea. I would join someone in taking the lead to get this started if necessary, but we'd need help and support from Biblical Families and any others that wish to be involved. This Organization should belong to all of us, FOR all of us.


John for Christ



Fairlight said:
I wanted to underscore what Pastor Whitten has said above.
I have been troubled by this exact situation for some time now. IMHO, I feel it is time that the Christian sector of "Poly World" step up to the plate and begin to employ greater integrity and character in their words, actions and within their families.

Since my own entrance into the Christian Polygyny movement; I've met some wonderful people. It has truly been a priveledge to get to know some of you. Unfortunately, I've also experienced some very negative situations. I have also had female friends share their own unpleasant experiences. A few examples would be....

1.) Receiving unsolicited sexually graphic messages on a social network from a prominent member of the Christian Polygyny movement.

2.) Being intentionally "outed" to a non-poly friend by another member of the Christian Polygyny movement because he was mad at me for a comment I made defending a friend of mine. He also deliberately used my real name online on several forums, even after I politely asked him not to.

3.) Pro-poly friends of mine (a husband, one wife and three children) were threatened by a well known member of the Poly community. He threatened to destroy the husband's livlihood and also made separate threats against the family.

4.) Another well known Christian Polygyny member routinely teaches on various forums that it is perfectly okay to hit your wives in order to discipline them. He tries to use the Bible verse, Proverbs 26:3 to justify this teaching. He also teaches that it's okay for men to not tell their existing wife/wives about marrying any subsequent wives.

5.) A married pro-poly female acquaintance told me about receiving messages from men telling her that it was God's will that she leave her husband and marry them. The last time I spoke to her she said she doesn't think she wants anything to do with the poly community.

6.) Several women who married into plural families only to be kicked to the curb because the first wife decided she couldn't live polygyny after all. Their husband caved to the demands of the first wife and sent the second wife packing.

7.) Another female acquaintance who was separated from her husband (and brand new to B.F.) received so many offers from men in just a few days that it scared her. She quickly left B.F. (She had also received a message from a man claiming God told him she was to marry him.)

8.) One woman claiming to be a Christian married into a plural family before divorcing her first husband.


This list is by no means exhaustive nor are the problems in the Christian Polygyny movement only related to female experiences. I have heard about men who were lied to and defrauded by women. Please don't misunderstand me. I love B.F. and I believe that it is a very valuable forum. I have always had good experiences with the B.F. staff. They have always been very responsive and caring in their communications with me. I do understand that we will never be able to stop all bad behavior and people need to use the brain that God gave them especially when dealing with online forums. I just strongly believe that it is time to be more proactive and clean up our act somewhat. Perhaps it's time for an official B.F. code of ethical conduct ?
As Christians I believe we need to set the bar a bit higher and set an example that God would be proud of.

Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Ooooh! Ooooh! I have a name!

Polygamy Rules Organization (PRO)!!!

What do you think???


John for Christ
 
I think some sort of broader fellowship of accountability is needed, although I am uncertain as to how to best organize it where individual groups would have autonomy. There are some groups out there that are labeling themselves 'christian' which would have some conflict with even accepting the revealed Scriptures as the word of God.

I think that is the right track, though. We do need to have some sort of 'label of approval' to recognize those groups and organizations that are adhering to a strict code of conduct.

And maybe that is where we can begin....maybe we can come up with a code of conduct, and as men and women of plural families agree to that code in common fellowship. That code could be based strictly on BEHAVIOR rather than particular beliefs. For instance, you have BF, you have CP2, you have several Torah groups, some smaller independent groups, and any number of individual families that could not agree on any one set of beliefs or views regarding plural marriage, but they COULD all agree on how to behave.

Shucks, I am starting to feel like James Madison here:

"When, in the course of human events, God has seen fit in these days to reveal to His people through various means and methods, an understanding regarding a return to a Biblical view of marriage. We, the men and women of this compact, the undersigned, do pledge our lives and our prosperity to the truth of His Word, and to the protection and defense of one another as having a common purpose and destiny. That purpose and destiny is to serve as a beacon to the church and to the world that God cares for and loves his primary form of government, the family. We believe that family, with the cornerstone foundation of the covenant between husband and wife, is essential to the future of the church and the world. We believe that God has revealed that the covenant between husband and wife is not limited to one union only, but may also exist in plurality, that is, a husband and more than one wife in covenant. As we pledge ourselves to this compact, we agree to the following articles of association:"

Ok, I've written the preamble...you guys can write the articles of association!

Blessings

Doc
 
That is a wise post Doc. It seems like coming up with a code of conduct, if we are able to, is a good place to start.
 
Well, now you guys got me started....

ARTICLE 1: THE AUTHORITY OF GOD AND MAN. We, the members of this compact, recognize that man through the vehicle of government authority, has rule over earthly matters. Likewise, God, through the vehicles of His revealed Word and through common fellowship, has rule over spiritual matters. As such, the covenant between husband and wife is a spiritual agreement, and therefore God maintains jurisdiction.

ARTICLE 2: RECOGNITION OF COVENANTS BETWEEN HUSBAND AND WIFE. A man and woman are considered to be in mutual covenant, or biblical marriage, when they mutually assent and declare to be in covenant as husband and wife. No ceremony,legal association or declaration by any earthly authority is necessary to seal, ratify,or condone the relationship.
 
Here are some ideas mostly taken from Fairlight's list of wrongs:

1. Do not send unsolicited sexually graphic material to somone that you are not married to.

2. Do not "out" others in the polygamy community.

3. The polygamy community is about love, and does not condone physical, psychological or verbal abuse.

4. Marriage is sacred and should be honored and respected. We are supportive and encouraging of existing relationships.

5. Women are not available until after they have a certificate of divorce or divorce is final. If a woman is separated she should be encouraged to return to her husband.

6. Women are not available until they are legally of age for marriage in whatever jurisdiction they are in

7. The community does not condone divorce. If you marry a woman you must keep her.
 
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