Tlaloc
Member
Splintered from discussion at viewtopic.php?f=17&t=119
How much value should we place in State marriages? Should we use them or avoid them?
Obviously the states idea of marriage is not ours, Mark C was raising questions as to the harm of it that I feel may make a good discussion.
For myself, the course of my life explains to a T how I feel about them. I have one wife, but three weddings. Not long after we started dating when she was 16 and I 15 we went with a small group of friends (4) to a hilltop, my Wife and I said our promise to each other in front of our friends, God, and the wind. It was the shortest (not counting the hike) least ceremonial, least expensive or fancy (we wore our normal clothes), wedding of the three. It was the most heartfelt, sincere, and real wedding to me. From that point we where lovers, something I have never had conviction for (though I have had disapproval by some who knew about it). The second was presided over by our Pastor (whom we did not even know at the time of our true marriage), attended by a few of our friends and close family, and held in a back yard. The reason for this and the next was mostly for show, a big show for people in general (to appease them I suppose) and for the state marriage. I find the state marriage valuable for the rights it bestows, things such as access in emergency medical situation, the ability to easily share funds in our household, tax reasons etc... I believe the state certificate to be a practical note to the state informing them that we share these things, if it's gone it has nothing to do with our true marriage, nor does it support our true marriage. I don't see it especially different than any platonic legal document. The reason for the second ceremony was that my family might have objected (they hate my wife, goodness knows how hard it'll be when they find she got us into this polygyny stuff) and caused legal problems at the big shebang. Even though the second ceremony was a precursor, I was much happier at it, and took it much more seriously than the grand pompous show that was the third. At the second I strategically omitted 'forsaking all others.' (Which of course had nothing to do with the first, which had no set traditional vows) She noticed and giggled, though everyone else thought it was just another giggle of happiness at the event. The third, showiest, biggest, most bleedingly expensive wedding was, well, almost an unhappy day for me. So much preparation, so many frills, so much stress for the preceding months setting it all up. She wanted that kind of thing, and of course I have no problem with her having it, but weddings as such are not for the groom. Interestingly enough before the day I said to myself 'this is just a show, just go thought it and get it done to make her and others happy, our real wedding was on the hill, even our wedding certificate was done before this by our Pastor. It's a good thing for me that I did too, her dad (a pastor in his own right, though at the time had no state certificate to preform weddings) presided and actually repeated the line when I omitted 'forsaking all others' the second time (perhaps he caught it the first time?) and so I was obliged to say it or make a scene. It gave me pause briefly after, but then I said to myself 'its not binding, this isn't the bond of my wedding or even my promise to the state. The whole things a show.' and my wife agrees. I'm not above correction, but its good enough for me.
So, to me, the Real wedding is on the hill, the church wedding was with my pastor and had paperwork for legalities, and the show was just a show. The more money and spectacle goes into it the more fake it is. But that last line is just my opinion.
How much value should we place in State marriages? Should we use them or avoid them?
Obviously the states idea of marriage is not ours, Mark C was raising questions as to the harm of it that I feel may make a good discussion.
For myself, the course of my life explains to a T how I feel about them. I have one wife, but three weddings. Not long after we started dating when she was 16 and I 15 we went with a small group of friends (4) to a hilltop, my Wife and I said our promise to each other in front of our friends, God, and the wind. It was the shortest (not counting the hike) least ceremonial, least expensive or fancy (we wore our normal clothes), wedding of the three. It was the most heartfelt, sincere, and real wedding to me. From that point we where lovers, something I have never had conviction for (though I have had disapproval by some who knew about it). The second was presided over by our Pastor (whom we did not even know at the time of our true marriage), attended by a few of our friends and close family, and held in a back yard. The reason for this and the next was mostly for show, a big show for people in general (to appease them I suppose) and for the state marriage. I find the state marriage valuable for the rights it bestows, things such as access in emergency medical situation, the ability to easily share funds in our household, tax reasons etc... I believe the state certificate to be a practical note to the state informing them that we share these things, if it's gone it has nothing to do with our true marriage, nor does it support our true marriage. I don't see it especially different than any platonic legal document. The reason for the second ceremony was that my family might have objected (they hate my wife, goodness knows how hard it'll be when they find she got us into this polygyny stuff) and caused legal problems at the big shebang. Even though the second ceremony was a precursor, I was much happier at it, and took it much more seriously than the grand pompous show that was the third. At the second I strategically omitted 'forsaking all others.' (Which of course had nothing to do with the first, which had no set traditional vows) She noticed and giggled, though everyone else thought it was just another giggle of happiness at the event. The third, showiest, biggest, most bleedingly expensive wedding was, well, almost an unhappy day for me. So much preparation, so many frills, so much stress for the preceding months setting it all up. She wanted that kind of thing, and of course I have no problem with her having it, but weddings as such are not for the groom. Interestingly enough before the day I said to myself 'this is just a show, just go thought it and get it done to make her and others happy, our real wedding was on the hill, even our wedding certificate was done before this by our Pastor. It's a good thing for me that I did too, her dad (a pastor in his own right, though at the time had no state certificate to preform weddings) presided and actually repeated the line when I omitted 'forsaking all others' the second time (perhaps he caught it the first time?) and so I was obliged to say it or make a scene. It gave me pause briefly after, but then I said to myself 'its not binding, this isn't the bond of my wedding or even my promise to the state. The whole things a show.' and my wife agrees. I'm not above correction, but its good enough for me.
So, to me, the Real wedding is on the hill, the church wedding was with my pastor and had paperwork for legalities, and the show was just a show. The more money and spectacle goes into it the more fake it is. But that last line is just my opinion.
