Catholic Father

[Obedient Christian girl]

I've recently begun to truly read scripture, the more I actually read the bible the more faults I find with the church. My father is the most important man in my life and he probably always will be. How do I discuss these issues with him? I do not want to watch my father follow the false voice of God as the church decides to portray him. I want nothing more than to please my father but at what point should I follow God the proper way. Should I obey my father's wishes and follow God in a false way but loyal to my father? Or is it better to follow God properly even if the price is disobeying my father? This is concerning all of the bible's teachings not just specifically the subject of polygamy.

 

[Slumberfreeze]

I've recently begun to truly read scripture, the more I actually read the bible the more faults I find with the church.

Not to be overly cynical, but you'll have that experience no matter what church you find yourself in. Churches these days are not built to house disciples of Jesus... not really.

My father is the most important man in my life and he probably always will be. How do I discuss these issues with him?

Respectfully and with love. The chances of a your father changing his opinion because of anything you have to say is real low. Then again the chances of him having you burned at the stake are fairly small as well. His reaction will be somewhere between these two poles.

I do not want to watch my father follow the false voice of God as the church decides to portray him.

"Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives"

I know this passage is about husbands and wives, but consider that the power dynamic is similar. You are the lesser and he the greater. If you win him over, it will not be with discussion. It may be, however, with your purity and reverence, in silence. And... you know... prayer and fasting.

I want nothing more than to please my father but at what point should I follow God the proper way. Should I obey my father's wishes and follow God in a false way but loyal to my father? Or is it better to follow God properly even if the price is disobeying my father?

I know this one. Honor your Father and Mother, that it may be well with you, but do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

You owe your father all duty and respect and honor, but your relationship with The Father is your own. Nothing is more important or vital..

That being said, be certain that whatever you do is what God is calling you to do. I have no love for the catholic organization, but then again I have no real connection with any other brand or flavor of Christendom. I have become quite the hermit, and this is due in large part to my being obsessed with what is proper for a group to do. Being a part of a group that is doing things improperly is not necessarily the same as being told to depart from them. Remember the words of Jesus to the 7 Churches of Revelation: Some of those Churches had incredible problems but I don't recall Him telling anyone to depart the Church they were in, but to repent and to hold fast the good things they were doing.

Which is to say, follow God properly, but be sure what you're doing is God's specific will for your life. We humans like to jump the gun a lot and do what we believe to do God's will based on a lot of presumptions. Fast, pray, and seek the will of God in your circumstances before doing anything drastic.

 

[Mojo]

@Natalie,

I think you need to put a halt to your posting right now.

Assuming you are a legitimate poster, you are most likely nowhere near the age of consent wherever you live. Add to that you are seeking a 44 year old man. This is not what we delve into here.

If you are not a legitimate poster, then all of our time here is being wasted.



In my opinion, you have two options (none of which involves you posting on here):

1. Get your father to post on here for you, and then we can talk to him. He can relay what information we have.
2. Wait until you are of legal age and then none of this matters. You should still honor your father, but you will be putting nobody in any legal danger.

I wish you well, but please stop posting.

 

[andrew]

@Natalie, @Slumberfreeze gave you some really great advice above. Please read and re-read his post and take it to heart.

Start making a list now of 'things you think you'll do differently when you're older'; it's an adult skill many are deficient in because they broke off from their parents' authority on bad terms instead of working out their issues and leaving with a blessing. Every bit of effort you put into working out your relationship with your father will make you a stronger adult and a better wife when the time comes, and it'll be here sooner than you think.

Meanwhile, let's start with this forum, or the dating site on which you said you met the man you've been talking with. Tell your dad that you were on a Christian dating site, and a guy you met there directed you to this site, which promotes our understanding of biblical marriage, even when that is in conflict with our cultural norms. If he's okay with your continuing to post here, they you're okay. If he's not, then don't resent his authority—work with it and do what he says. I agree with Slumber that your best move is to win your dad's heart and his attention through your deference to his authority while you are under the age of majority. What you do after you're of age is up to you.

 

[WifeOfHisYouth]

@Natalie, I applaud your desire to be a wife and a mother. There is no greater thing in life, aside from salvation, in my opinion. I knew from a young age that was all I desired to be. At the right time, God blessed me with both.

I agree with the postings above. At this age in your life, your father is the man with authority over you. If he tells you you are to not speak with your pursuer- you are to obey him, with a quiet and gentle spirit. The way you conduct yourself, even with matters that you may think are unfair, is the way that you will speak the loudest to your father about your maturity and respect for him. Actions, not words.

I’m going to take it one step further, this is TRAINING for the kind of wife you will one day be. Until you become of legal age and can marry, you are under your father. Once you marry, you step under your husbands headship. I can guarantee you there will be things he decides that you do not agree with, but you respect him and follow his lead anyway. (For many of us wives in this forum, plural marriage is one of those things).

How you handle yourself now will dictate how you will learn to respond to your husband later when you disagree. This is your first lap in the marathon of life.

Blessings <3

 

[Mojo]

@andrew and @WifeOfHisYouth, thank you for putting that softer touch on things. I was running out of the house and posted without full explanation. I wasn't trying to be harsh, just firm.

@Natalie and others....I wasn't trying to run Natalie off from posting because I don't care about her matter or her as an individual. I was ushering her off this forum because, as a father, I don't think it's appropriate for us to be handing out advise or care to her outside of his permission. I know popular culture encourages young folks to be independent and self reliant, but that's not our approach here. We promote independence and self reliance UNDER parental protection. Then, when women are older and UNDER a husband's protection, many of us will still not give advise and care to another man's wife, because it's not our role, it's his.

We all were teens at some point and remember just how mature and grown up we thought we were. Natalie may be mature beyond her years, but what is being proposed to her is not wise. If her parents are in the dark about this, or are in disagreement, it's also unbiblical.

This road runs two ways, none of which we (as adult posters on this forum) have a right of way. This is a private road for Natalie's parents. If they approve of this relationship, then that's between them and the man. If they don't approve, then we have no right to intervene either.

I also agree that it's sound advise to allow your submission to your father in this matter to be your best witness and best training ground for the future. Brilliant @Slumberfreeze and @WifeOfHisYouth!

Until we know more, I still stand by my proposition that this young lady needs to be off this forum.

 

[andrew]

what is being proposed to her is not wise

Not sure what this is a reference to. We're all agreed she needs to submit to her father. Do you mean what is being proposed to her by the man she has been in contact with?

 

[Mojo]

Not sure what this is a reference to. We're all agreed she needs to submit to her father. Do you mean what is being proposed to her by the man she has been in contact with?

Bingo!

He needs to be upfront with Papa. If he is encouraging rebellion in her home, or subversion, then he is wayyyy out of line. He needs to be a real man and go see Daddy. If he's in the military, then wait until he is on leave. We don't have all the details, but I believe she said that this has all been online. That, combined with underage issues is not wise. Our posters here have been pretty responsible, I believe (based on memory from what I read earlier).

 

[andrew]

Turns out there was a misunderstanding about her age. The man that had been talking with her thought she was older (of age to make her own decisions), and he has broken off contact. There's more to this story, but for our purposes here this matter has been resolved.

 

[FollowingHim]

I thoroughly agree with everybody in that she needs to go to her father about this, and not to us, and it is not our place to offer her advice outside his authority, and am very glad this matter has been resolved.

However, given the suggestion some have made that she shouldn't be posting at all, I have to disagree. If this were truly a case of an older man grooming a teenager (which it most certainly is not, happily, but if it WERE that worst-case scenario), I would want that teenager to feel most welcome to tell anybody about it, including ourselves. She would need any help she could get to be turned away from a potentially disastrous situation. And any teenager in such a situation posting here will be firmly directed back to being open with her parents about it, as Natalie has been above and in another thread. I think this entire exchange is an excellent illustration of how this community works very hard to protect young women. So if there is ever a teenage girl in a questionable situation that wants to reach out to somebody about it, please encourage them to feel welcome to reach out to us, as Natalie has done here, so they can receive the same sound advice.

As we will never encourage underage marriage here, and will firmly advise the exact opposite, such conversations can only have positive effects both for the people involved, and for the public reputation of the forum as a whole.

All people are welcome to bring their questions here - but the advice some receive may not be what they anticipated.

 

[andrew]

Thank you, Samuel. Better than I would have said it.

We need to have conversations like this. We don't have anything to be ashamed of or fearful about, and there are people out there that need our help. We have been able to help two people get good information that has helped them make good decisions and hopefully better decisions going forward based on lessons learned. Let's keep it up.

 

[Mojo]

I will respectfully disagree regarding the appropriateness of the young woman posting here. It has nothing to do with shame, fear or ageism. As soon as she opened a can of worms regarding serious legal issues, and with a real person some know here, she needed to be sequestered until all information could be gathered and confirmed. The cat was out of the bag, and the milk was spilled, by her own admission.

In dealing with underage folks, assess their veracity in private (with a same sex witness), then assess the danger of abuse at home, then, once you are satisfied they are not in physical danger, you encourage a bridge to parents. That's not done in public. The details could be revealed after the fact, as has been done here.

If she insists on posting here to engage in an illegal proposition that her parents aren't aware of, then she is out of line in my book.

If she wanted to post and ask questions as an anonymous female without revealing her age, then it would have been fine. But, as I said before, the milk was already spilled. I don't want sex counsellors or abortion counsellors counseling my teenager without my permission. I would feel the same if I were her father and found out she was doing that here. If he wants to join her, or post for her, all good.

This might be my personal hang up, but I still stand by it.

 

[andrew]

Mojo, you're beating a dead horse. All of the advice given here was to get under her father's authority, not break the law, and to find out from her father whether he wants her to continue posting here. Which advice she took as sound, and she has withdrawn from this site. I'm not sure why we're still talking about it.

Meanwhile, the statements made immediately above by Samuel are still policy here. And on that note I'm closing this thread.