I posted this in another thread but thought that it might be of use in its own thread. Fairlight made a comment about how some have received bad experiences from church life. That is true. But a new day is on the way. A new set of believers is on the way that sees this not as an obstacle but as an opportunity for the gospel to spread and missions to go to a new height.
by Dr. K.R. Allen » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:29 am
Fairlight wrote:
There is a common theme of people who are hurt by pastors and churches among this community. It is one reason why so many start off with a skpetical and critical spirit towards those in leadership or towards those with academic training or even those who are, or have been, pastors. Since their hearts are injured they speak from that wound that has yet to be healed by grace and forgiveness.
It is a real struggle for those who have come to see this view of Scripture and then have been mistreated, thrown out, or rejected. Sometimes though some have been kicked out because of their attitude and lack of patience with leaders who were still needing to learn as well. Patience is a two way street. At other times even when those with the right understanding were patient they were still rudely and unloving treated.
Yet, there is a day developing where a new breed and men and women are arising who are going to love their enemies, respect all people even the ones whom they disagree with, and who will avoid allowing bittnerness to control them so they can still fulfill the Great Commission, which is the highest calling we each share no matter from what background or religious tradition.
There are believers now developing who see this issue not as an obstacle but as an opportunity for the gospel to shine bright in a new day where many need a new, fresh, and powerful dose of the gospel from a new movement that truly understands love, grace, and the idea of family. About 78 million to be exact are in this category now. They are called the Millennial Generation and they are ripe for a message of love from the lips of a hopeful person not a critical and complaining person.
Normally the first generation or so of a new movement experiences anger, frustration, and they lash out and go on the attack. Sometimes it is ugly, and yes sometimes it is disrespectful. Yet at times some get it right and the effort is holy and balanced. It varies.
But then after about a generation or so this the people, and the children of that generation, begin to see that there needs to be organization for power to be maximized and properly channeled for postive results. These people then begin to see again the value, the need, and the blessing of forming local churches or missionary organizations to help go forth to build disciples for the Great Commission.
Like with all things it is a pendulum swing.
I'll share a couple of verses here that apply:
"Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no fails to obtain the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springs up and causes trouble, and by it many are defiled" (Heb. 12:14-15)
"Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. . . . If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good" (Rom. 12:14,18-21).
"Do all things without grumbling or questioning [a skeptical/hypercritical spirit attitude], that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world" (Phil. 2:14-15).
One of the reasons some do not shine as lights in the midst of the areas and churches where the theology is in error is because instead of showing grace, gentleness, and patience those who have the truth show anger, bitterness, and disrespect. We sometimes who have the truth are our worst enemies. We sometimes destroy ourselves and our message by the way we conduct ourselves with the truth.
If you are without a church home I suggest instead of complaining about your local churches and leaders that you begin to do things to bless them. Invite the local pastors over to dinner and do not discuss polygyny but just pray for them and with them for the stress they are under. After and in time when you have built a relationship with the person the discussion will come naturally as you fellowship in the Lord. Do you know how many pastors have no true friend? They hear complaints, arguments, gossip, and ugly words towards them every day for years upon years. This damages their spirits too and they are wounded and in need of true friends in the Lord.
If you hunt call one up and go hunting with him. If you fish take one along with you to fish and build a friendship. If they have a hobby you know about get involved with them in it. For them to listen you must first be a friend to them. Sure, he may try and evangelize you. Take it in stride and talk about the faith you have in Christ. When he asks why you don't attend his church, and he will because if he sees you as a friend he wants more friends there since he already has so many who complain, grumble, and gripe already, share with him that you just have not yet found the right place because of some doctrines you hold to but that those can be discussed later. Keep building the friendship though and praying for him and with him for him to be used of God. In time God will open the door to discuss the doctrine of love and marriage. And guess what, by that time he will think you are one of the most mature people he has ever met and then the discussion will have more weight in his heart because he respects you because you have shown him love and respect for a period of time. He sees, feels, and knows you are not mean, crazy, Mormon, etc etc.
If someone loves them, truly loves them, and cares for their soul and ministers to them it can be a fresh wind of air to them and it might even open their eyes to discuss and hear what the Bible has to say on other matters.
I have relationships with numerous pastors. Some who understand this, some who do not, and some who oppose it and yet i've been able to retain a respect, friendship, and cordial relationship with them even if I am not a part of their particular fellowship. I can and do go in and out visiting and attending and so far my friendships with them have remained solid even though we may not agree on this or even on other issues. I say that not to toot my horn. That is not the point. The point is these brothers are humans and they desire friendship and they, just like us, crave to be loved and respected.
We can get farther and do more by blessing them instead of cursing them. If we agree with 10 or 20 or 30 things they have right then we need to encourage them in those areas. When we are in the community we need to praise them in front of others for what they do have right and for what they are doing right. In time if we do that and fulfill on our end the effort to make an attempt at living at peace with all people then God will bless the effort and he will open up a door for us to discuss other topics with them.
And, too, we don't have all things right in our theology either. As we do this we might hear something from them that we still need to hear as well and it might be something God is using them to teach us as we might have some error in us that they see and want to share with us.
The simple goal of love is truly not so simple because it requires humility and hard work on our end. It makes us put our pride down.
The doctrine of Polygyny is not and can never be the most essential aspect of who we are or we will never make progress. The gospel, which is fundamentally about loving our Lord and neighbor, must be our theme and as this subject arises then it can be discussed.
God is slowly raising up a set of believers who will do more work with the gospel, and who also believe this doctrine, but who are going to major on the gospel and allow God to by his own hand bring this up as the work of the gospel is being done. These believers are respectful of authority, even those in error, and they are seeking to build relationships and peace building bridges with those in error, like Christ did by coming to earth for us, and these believers are shining as they touch the lives of pastors and even church members and the lost who are hurting and need a touch of the love from the Holy Spirit. And in that process these believers are making inroads into the lives of others which leads them to desire to listen to this doctrine of love in a biblical union.
The means to victory is not through complaining, but through community.
The means to progress is not through anarchy but through agape action.
The means to gaining respect as a movement is not through denunciation of leaders and churches but through dialog and deliberation with them so they know you are for the cause of the gospel first and foremost.
In following that path success will come, not overnight but in due time. As the Bible says, there is "always faith, hope, and the greatest of these is love." It also says, do not grow weary of doing good for in due time you will reap the reward (Gal. 6:9). Let us then live in that spirit of hope as we inspire others to hope for a better day. And let us walk in step of true faith and love so we will contribute positively to that day.
The world has enough people who grumble, complain, and are disrespectful as it is. Let us be different, let us be the true lights that shine grace in the darkness!
Dr. Allen
by Dr. K.R. Allen » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:29 am
Fairlight wrote:
There is a common theme of people who are hurt by pastors and churches among this community. It is one reason why so many start off with a skpetical and critical spirit towards those in leadership or towards those with academic training or even those who are, or have been, pastors. Since their hearts are injured they speak from that wound that has yet to be healed by grace and forgiveness.
It is a real struggle for those who have come to see this view of Scripture and then have been mistreated, thrown out, or rejected. Sometimes though some have been kicked out because of their attitude and lack of patience with leaders who were still needing to learn as well. Patience is a two way street. At other times even when those with the right understanding were patient they were still rudely and unloving treated.
Yet, there is a day developing where a new breed and men and women are arising who are going to love their enemies, respect all people even the ones whom they disagree with, and who will avoid allowing bittnerness to control them so they can still fulfill the Great Commission, which is the highest calling we each share no matter from what background or religious tradition.
There are believers now developing who see this issue not as an obstacle but as an opportunity for the gospel to shine bright in a new day where many need a new, fresh, and powerful dose of the gospel from a new movement that truly understands love, grace, and the idea of family. About 78 million to be exact are in this category now. They are called the Millennial Generation and they are ripe for a message of love from the lips of a hopeful person not a critical and complaining person.
Normally the first generation or so of a new movement experiences anger, frustration, and they lash out and go on the attack. Sometimes it is ugly, and yes sometimes it is disrespectful. Yet at times some get it right and the effort is holy and balanced. It varies.
But then after about a generation or so this the people, and the children of that generation, begin to see that there needs to be organization for power to be maximized and properly channeled for postive results. These people then begin to see again the value, the need, and the blessing of forming local churches or missionary organizations to help go forth to build disciples for the Great Commission.
Like with all things it is a pendulum swing.
I'll share a couple of verses here that apply:
"Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no fails to obtain the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springs up and causes trouble, and by it many are defiled" (Heb. 12:14-15)
"Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. . . . If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good" (Rom. 12:14,18-21).
"Do all things without grumbling or questioning [a skeptical/hypercritical spirit attitude], that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world" (Phil. 2:14-15).
One of the reasons some do not shine as lights in the midst of the areas and churches where the theology is in error is because instead of showing grace, gentleness, and patience those who have the truth show anger, bitterness, and disrespect. We sometimes who have the truth are our worst enemies. We sometimes destroy ourselves and our message by the way we conduct ourselves with the truth.
If you are without a church home I suggest instead of complaining about your local churches and leaders that you begin to do things to bless them. Invite the local pastors over to dinner and do not discuss polygyny but just pray for them and with them for the stress they are under. After and in time when you have built a relationship with the person the discussion will come naturally as you fellowship in the Lord. Do you know how many pastors have no true friend? They hear complaints, arguments, gossip, and ugly words towards them every day for years upon years. This damages their spirits too and they are wounded and in need of true friends in the Lord.
If you hunt call one up and go hunting with him. If you fish take one along with you to fish and build a friendship. If they have a hobby you know about get involved with them in it. For them to listen you must first be a friend to them. Sure, he may try and evangelize you. Take it in stride and talk about the faith you have in Christ. When he asks why you don't attend his church, and he will because if he sees you as a friend he wants more friends there since he already has so many who complain, grumble, and gripe already, share with him that you just have not yet found the right place because of some doctrines you hold to but that those can be discussed later. Keep building the friendship though and praying for him and with him for him to be used of God. In time God will open the door to discuss the doctrine of love and marriage. And guess what, by that time he will think you are one of the most mature people he has ever met and then the discussion will have more weight in his heart because he respects you because you have shown him love and respect for a period of time. He sees, feels, and knows you are not mean, crazy, Mormon, etc etc.
If someone loves them, truly loves them, and cares for their soul and ministers to them it can be a fresh wind of air to them and it might even open their eyes to discuss and hear what the Bible has to say on other matters.
I have relationships with numerous pastors. Some who understand this, some who do not, and some who oppose it and yet i've been able to retain a respect, friendship, and cordial relationship with them even if I am not a part of their particular fellowship. I can and do go in and out visiting and attending and so far my friendships with them have remained solid even though we may not agree on this or even on other issues. I say that not to toot my horn. That is not the point. The point is these brothers are humans and they desire friendship and they, just like us, crave to be loved and respected.
We can get farther and do more by blessing them instead of cursing them. If we agree with 10 or 20 or 30 things they have right then we need to encourage them in those areas. When we are in the community we need to praise them in front of others for what they do have right and for what they are doing right. In time if we do that and fulfill on our end the effort to make an attempt at living at peace with all people then God will bless the effort and he will open up a door for us to discuss other topics with them.
And, too, we don't have all things right in our theology either. As we do this we might hear something from them that we still need to hear as well and it might be something God is using them to teach us as we might have some error in us that they see and want to share with us.
The simple goal of love is truly not so simple because it requires humility and hard work on our end. It makes us put our pride down.
The doctrine of Polygyny is not and can never be the most essential aspect of who we are or we will never make progress. The gospel, which is fundamentally about loving our Lord and neighbor, must be our theme and as this subject arises then it can be discussed.
God is slowly raising up a set of believers who will do more work with the gospel, and who also believe this doctrine, but who are going to major on the gospel and allow God to by his own hand bring this up as the work of the gospel is being done. These believers are respectful of authority, even those in error, and they are seeking to build relationships and peace building bridges with those in error, like Christ did by coming to earth for us, and these believers are shining as they touch the lives of pastors and even church members and the lost who are hurting and need a touch of the love from the Holy Spirit. And in that process these believers are making inroads into the lives of others which leads them to desire to listen to this doctrine of love in a biblical union.
The means to victory is not through complaining, but through community.
The means to progress is not through anarchy but through agape action.
The means to gaining respect as a movement is not through denunciation of leaders and churches but through dialog and deliberation with them so they know you are for the cause of the gospel first and foremost.
In following that path success will come, not overnight but in due time. As the Bible says, there is "always faith, hope, and the greatest of these is love." It also says, do not grow weary of doing good for in due time you will reap the reward (Gal. 6:9). Let us then live in that spirit of hope as we inspire others to hope for a better day. And let us walk in step of true faith and love so we will contribute positively to that day.
The world has enough people who grumble, complain, and are disrespectful as it is. Let us be different, let us be the true lights that shine grace in the darkness!
Dr. Allen
