Meat Limits of Christian rules

[MemeFan]

Withholding information is NOT sin. Our Father withholds the mysteries of the universe and that is reserved for Kings and princes to discover.

And when withholding benefits criminal to hide their punishable sins? Or knowing who does murder, theft and rape and keeping mouth shut up?

Did by you, wives of Pakistani rapists who rape white girls and don't report their husbands/cousins to police, are they guilty of "do no bear false witness?"

So what is difference between:

1. You lie, innocent die
2. You withholding information, innocent die

 

[MemeFan]

In prophecy the one of the traits of the Messiah is that He will be sinless and blameless, thus not committing any sinful action. Jesus healed on sabbath. He never sinned. Healing on Sabbath is not a sin.

I'm not sure how much more logic you need.

Because you just want to read Bible, but I want to understand Lord's thinking.

Because I ask why behing laws.

It's not my problem you lack curiosity.

Implicating someone else is guilty is clear case of false witness against your neighbor, lying. It doesn't matter if no specific person is being called out.

There is no general sin of withholding information in the bible. Withholding information that will lead to others injury or death is wrong. There are other circumstances which withholding information may be either right or wrong, this is a matter of biblical discernment. The point I was making is that withholding information is not necessarily the equivalent of the sin of lying.

Read my previous post.

 

[MemeFan]

Serious, theologically conservative scholars have proposed that even our American Revolution was unscriptural. I know John McArthur, among others held that view.

Good info. I can save time by not reading this moron.

 

[MemeFan]

I agree that this thread isn’t necessarily the best use of time, but ethics, and situational ethics is a thing people debate. When is it proper to violate one law to uphold or prevent another law from being broken?

Because something you have too.

Im theory, but rather rare in practice, is that laws can contradict each other. Or simply isn't situation is such that one of laws simply can't be done.

Also, something law breaking can be justifed by another something worse. Easy to ilustrate in traffic. Changing car lane without warning in order to avoiding accident is, in my opinion, justified. One can drive within speed limit and still have crazy/suicidal person run in front of car.

To decide what is best, one must understand values hierarchy and which rules have priority.

 

[MemeFan]

Because the underlying premise coming through in this thread appears to be one where acting contrary to God’s laws and instructions can be justified when it suits, I'll not contribute further. Seeking to find fault with various biblical characters, when God doesn't find fault, is not a good practice. It is written in Proverbs 17:15, He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, Both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord. Shalom

LOL.

Did you even asked yourself why rules are what they are? Why Lord has decided something?

From when seeking more understanding of Law and Lord's moral system can be seen as something bad?

We already have issues where seeking principles is must. Are boyfriend/girlfriend married by Law or not? Is culture and state don't always you to use bride price, does that mean lifelong celibate*.

Such situation can't be solved by Lord says.

Another reason is to understand Lord's intent. Law is set of instructions and since all instructions are methods, then all Law is method. But what is goal of those methods?

If you wife ask you to buy eggs, something best thing to do is not to buy eggs. Strange? No. If wife's intent is to buy eggs to make cakes and intent of making cakes is to prepare for celebration, what if wife has overestimed number of cakes needed? Then it's best not to make more cakes.

And even if wife send you to store, maybe you exchange too much watermellons with eggs with your neighboor?

Also, have you even heard of mission command?

@The Revolting Man, you would, please, be willing to explain this fantastic concept to uneducated people here?




*If your answer is yes, then by what right you cam decide to eliminate humanity from face of Earth because you can't do one rule.

 

[MemeFan]

Please provide the references where it says this order wasn't a cultural expectation. Jacob didn't call Laban out but accepted it and worked the additional seven years.

And by logic you conclude it's cultural expectation.

Jacob wanted younger daughter, he was in foreign culture where locals have to explained details how culture local culture works and only biblical source of local culture is Laban who testify about himself*.

So Laban accept deal for younger daughter, then does deception by sending older daughter into bed. So testimony of proven dishonest man is best method to understand local culture.

I don't need refences, I can from between lines that Laban can't be trusted in anything important.


*Laban says what is local culture and he is only witness

 

[MemeFan]

All of the scriptures you just quoted are explicitly detailing out how those situations were and when a lie happens.

When patriarch lies about his wife being sister, we have report about patriarch thinking in moment of lie.

But sometimes we don't have reported thinking, like in case of Laban. So from behaviour we have to conclude he isn't, lets say honorable man.

The midwife story does not have the context to justify your implication. If we read scripture with the lens you are asking us to use every person in bible would be considered guilty of lying till proven without a doubt innocent.

It does. I'm allowed to use inferential logic, my understanding of history, game theory and anything else to get what is really happening.

You have no idea how bureaucracy even works.

 

[HomesteadWife]

Because you just want to read Bible, but I want to understand Lord's thinking.

Because I ask why behing laws.

It's not my problem you lack curiosity.

This is not a matter of curiosity. Thank you, this post enlightened me to exactly what you are struggling with in biblical understanding.

What you struggle with is exactly what Eve did. Wanting more knowledge and understanding than it is your due as created being who is not the creator.

Submission. This is why you align with women and more feminist ideologies. You feel it is your right to understand and question everything God does and reject what does not make sense in your worldview and logic.

That is not how submission works. Submission means you obey without question. Whether you understand or not. Like a young child doesn't know why he is forbidden something but has to obey anyway. We aren't promised omnipotent understanding. There may be some things we can understand or grow to understand more but some things are simply - because God said so. There is enough guidance in the Bible to make decisions about any circumstance we can find ourselves in. And yes that includes that there are sins which God considers worse than others and punishments for them.

 

[Mojo]

I rather detest people who denounce American independence and sovereignty all while using the liberties it provides to condemn America.

Is this directed at me?

You’ll notice that I answered your question with a question mark of my own, meaning it’s not a statement.

I can at least see both sides of this coin.

There’s a lot of scripture that explains that we believers are really sojourners, not citizens of any country.

Other scripture encourages believers to live respectfully and peacefully with authority.

Was the country founded by mostly Christians and under Christian premises? Yes. But, not all things done on the name of Christ are of Christ. People can be deceived.

 

[Mojo]

Good info. I can save time by not reading this moron.

Why, because I said he was serious? That figures.

 

[Mojo]

Because something you have too.

Im theory, but rather rare in practice, is that laws can contradict each other. Or simply isn't situation is such that one of laws simply can't be done.

Also, something law breaking can be justifed by another something worse. Easy to ilustrate in traffic. Changing car lane without warning in order to avoiding accident is, in my opinion, justified. One can drive within speed limit and still have crazy/suicidal person run in front of car.

To decide what is best, one must understand values hierarchy and which rules have priority.

You’re free to give it, but I didnt write that question to ask yours or anyone else’s
input or opinion. It was rhetorical for others to recognize that it’s a proposition to consider and often shows up in life.

 

[frederick]

What you struggle with is exactly what Eve did. Wanting more knowledge and understanding than it is your due as created being who is not the creator.

As I read your comment it reminded me of where and with whom the questioning of God's commandments began. Personally, I'm not keen to align with such company.

 

[MemeFan]

Why, because I said he was serious? That figures.

No, because he said that US War of independence in unscriptural.

You see, there are 3 ways to deal with unsatisfactory situation. Shut up, voice (demand reform) and exit. Horewer, both voice and exit require each other since those whole leave strenghten negotiation leverage of those who leave.

If you can't leave, then voice doesn't work since rulers can just punish dissidents. So only practical option is to take it up in ass. So you get dictature in practice.

Another thing: I don't have high opinion of those who don't understand basic human needs.

Such rebellions only gets kinetic because due to long consitent pattern of abuse where ruling class doesn't give care about abused.

 

[MemeFan]

This is not a matter of curiosity. Thank you, this post enlightened me to exactly what you are struggling with in biblical understanding.

What you struggle with is exactly what Eve did. Wanting more knowledge and understanding than it is your due as created being who is not the creator.

Submission. This is why you align with women and more feminist ideologies. You feel it is your right to understand and question everything God does and reject what does not make sense in your worldview and logic.

That is not how submission works. Submission means you obey without question. Whether you understand or not. Like a young child doesn't know why he is forbidden something but has to obey anyway. We aren't promised omnipotent understanding. There may be some things we can understand or grow to understand more but some things are simply - because God said so. There is enough guidance in the Bible to make decisions about any circumstance we can find ourselves in. And yes that includes that there are sins which God considers worse than others and punishments for them.

Then why father - child analogy/metaphor is used to by Lord to describe Him relationship to us?

Sons are raised to be independentto be free, yet you describe expect Christians to be slaves.

As son I haveevey reason to expect better treatman than slave. And I can ask as much questions as I want.

And every subordinate can become better by understanding what superior wants. You have to ask what you don't understand.

And I don't have to take anything in my ass.

 

[steve]

nd every subordinate can become better by understanding what superior wants. You have to ask what you don't understand.

There is a balance.
Yes, knowing why can often produce better outcomes.
But needing to know why can interrupt the process.

 

[Mojo]

P

No, because he said that US War of independence in unscriptural.

And then SERIOUS people like you provide zero scriptural evidence for this…….

You see, there are too way to deal with unsatisfactory situation. Shut up, voice (demand reform) and exit. Horewer, both voice and exit require each other since those whole leave strenghten negotiation leverage of those who leave.

If you can't leave, then voice doesn't work since rulers can just punish dissidents. So only practical option is to take it up in ass. So you get dictature in practice.

Another thing: I don't have high opinion of those who don't understand basic human needs.

Such rebellions only get kinetic because due to long consitent pattern of abuse where ruling class doesn't give care about abused.

 

[MeganC]

Is this directed at me?

John McArthur. And anyone else like him.

Kings and dictators to me are a form of idolatry because these people and their sycophants hold them up as deities. Those who would bow down to them are IMHO violating the First Commandment.

Yes, I know the passages that say God put so-and-so in charge. That's nice. It also neatly absolves cowards and the feckless from any moral responsibility to oppose an unrighteous leader or government.

See my next post.

 

[MeganC]

Submission means you obey without question.

These people submitted without question:



Maybe they should have risen up, taken arms, and overthrown their government. Or at least tried.

 

[HomesteadWife]

These people submitted without question:

View attachment 12512

Maybe they should have risen up, taken arms, and overthrown their government. Or at least tried.

In my post about submission I was strictly referencing a persons obedience level to God and his law and guidelines in the bible.


We live in a fallen world and there are always going to be people who use and abuse power over others for their own ends.
I haven't really weighed in on the tangent on here.

 

[HomesteadWife]

Then why father - child analogy/metaphor is used to by Lord to describe Him relationship to us?

Sons are raised to be independentto be free, yet you describe expect Christians to be slaves.

As a son you are trained up to know and understand what morality is by learning Gods laws and rules. This is so you have the ability as man to lead and guide yourself, your family, and others by them.

Being a son vs. a slave does not mean you have no restrictions and rules. God is still God. Even though he graces us by calling us sons does not negate that he is in a unfathomably higher position of respect and obedience owed. We never outgrow being a child to God. We never grow up to become an equal or independent of His laws.

As son I haveevey reason to expect better treatman than slave. And I can ask as much questions as I want.

Yes you can ask,and sometimes God allows more understanding. But there are times when the answer is - because God said so.

And every subordinate can become better by understanding what superior wants. You have to ask what you don't understand.

And I don't have to take anything in my ass.

God lays out hierarchy and order to His world and our relationships with Him and others.

Another metaphor used by God is a marriage relationship. Where man is head over woman as Christ is head over church (men,)

As a wife I do find it helpful to understand what my husband wants and why. Yet it is not required of him to explain himself to me before he commands or directs me to do something. That is submission. Explaining and making sure I understand everything he asks me to do and why before it gets done would mean our family unit wouldn't function smoothly. I have submitted myself to my husband by choice. I trust he wants what is good for me and I do not have to understand everything for me to submit and accomplish what he tells me to do. I also trust that he knows and is guiding our family on biblical principles.

How much more can we trust a loving, infallible , and merciful God?
Having the ability to submit to and be Gods child is the exact opposite of being bitten in the ass.